Where is this team headed based on 2016?

[phillychuck]

It has been a weird season...we are now tied with the Angels for the 9th-worst record in baseball (the 9th draft pick looking at the up-side). We are the worst team in baseball by far in run differential, and run differential is often a more reliable indicator of true talent level.

As much as I thought early this season we could contend in 2017, I don't think that's even remotely possible at this point, especially given the lack of free-agent options on the mound and the slow progress of our two top prospects (Williams and Crawford) this summer.

What's your off-season plan? I would:

Try to sign Helllickson to a 3 or 4 year deal; certainly give him the QO.
Get the young pitchers healthy. Limit innings in September. Look at usage patterns for next spring--consider a six-man rotation.
Sign a relief pitcher or two to stabilize the pen.
The free agent starters are really awful. Trade for a decent veteran starter.
Try to think outside the box for another starter...are their FA relievers who could convert to starting and be successful? AAAA pitchers who might be undervalued?
Change the on-field management team--this year has been bad for them in terms of both wins and development of talent.
Work with Franco and Herrera in terms of selectivity/plate discipline. They have both regressed in that respect. So has Williams, and Crawford has been too aggressive lately. Is this an organizational issue?
Leave Crawford and Williams in LV for at least the start of the season--make them prove they should be promoted.

[Austinfan]

In a holding pattern until the end of 2017, which is about where I expected them to be before the season starter, this year 70-75 wins with a young, inconsistent team, next year 75-85 wins depending on how the young pitchers develop and hold up.

C: Rupp has established himself, Alfaro goes to Lehigh, Knapp probably repeats at Lehigh
1B: Joseph gets a full year, Stassi?, Hoskins at Lehigh
2B: Hernandez has established himself, Valentin repeats at Lehigh, Kingery starts at Reading
SS: Galvis is establishing himself, top fielder with 15+ HRs, just needs to make better contact but has really improved since he fixed his swing, Crawford starts at Lehigh
3B: Franco regressed but flashes, his fielding is improving, no real alternative
LF: ???, Williams, Goeddel, Pullin at Lehigh
CF: Herrera has really regressed, Quinn at Lehigh
RF: Altherr, good enough to start, good enough to stay? Cozens at Lehigh
I see a veteran patch in LF, because Lehigh is loaded at every position but 3B, by the end of 2017 some decisions will have to be made but there is no hurry

SP: Valesquez, Eickhoff, Eflin, Nola? Thompson, Morgan, Asher, Hellickson QO, maybe resigned
RP: Neris, Ramos, Gomez, S Gonzalez, Garcia?
Pivetta, Lively, Pinto, Appel, Viza starters at Lehigh, Cordero, Arajuo, Rodriquez, Therrien in the pen

I think 2017 is the "shakeout cruise", there won't be much FA action other than a veteran LF.
A learning season at both the ML level and Lehigh, and a lot of jockeying for position for 2018, and decisions made on the field leading to offseason moves in winter 2017-18.

[andyb]

For the younger pitchers I think I would consider the 18-batter plan that some other teams have gone to. That means you expect your starter to pitch through the lineup twice. After 18 hitters you look to the bullpen. The strategy was a reaction to pitchers with difficulty the 3rd time through the lineup. It requires more relievers that can go 2 innings behind them, but is an interesting way to keep young starters in the 90-pitch range but within a 5-man rotation (so you don't need that 6th starter who often is not that good).

My big prescriptions are 2 veteran pitchers (Hellickson and possibly a trade for a top of rotation arm) and then spend a little money to build depth in the bullpen. Maybe think of adding an outfield bat, preferably left handed.

Beyond that aggressively promote young players. Crawford plays SS. Galvis either competes with Hernandez at 2B or is traded to a team needing a SS. Veteran trades of Galvis, Rupp, and Gomez should be considered if they can help bring back the missing pieces or top 100 prospects. Don't buy too much into small sample size stats. Rupp may be closer to a 725 OPS type catcher. Gomez really is not a great closer with his stuff. Galvis (and Hernandez) may have advanced defensive metrics that show them as better than they actually are (small sample defensive stats are notoriously variable). Trade them while their value is high IF the right deal for a starting pitcher or top 100 prospect comes in.

The lineup might need some placeholders if some pieces like Williams or Cozens or Hoskins are not quite ready. So the new left-handed bat is probably one on a 1-2 year deal.

2017 is a year where this team CAN compete. A little money to shore up the rotation and the bullpen and a little development from younger players should get them into the 81-win range where they can compete if things break right. Not trying to compete at all in 2017 should not be an option with our financial resources. We can find a way to use a little money and still mostly play young players as 2017 is the final bridge to 2018 when they should be able to fully compete.

[allentown]

I think 2016, and unfortunately 2017 is only a slightly better repeat -- certainly not 85 wins with the path being taken, has the Phillies at the MLB level living the worst of both worlds: a team which is bad enough to be totally noncompetitive and not really interest or draw fans, but which is just good enough not to qualify for a primo draft pick or a large draft/international pool. Sort of the spot where the Sixers sat for years.

This year hasn't done as much to add MLB- and near-MLB-talent as I hoped or even expected. The only key upper minor leaguers to really exceed my expectations have been Eflin, Alfaro, and Hoskins. I expected both Williams and Crawford to be contributors in Philly by now, but their performance hasn't warranted that. I expected Quinn to be knocking on the door as the next Phillies CF, but it has been another season of too much time out for injury. I expected more at the MLB level than Thompson and Velasquez are currently showing. A lot more guys farther down on the farm have exceeded expectations. Tirado is especially encouraging. At the MLB level, our double play combination is young and has out-performed my expectations, lending some uncertainty to future direction at the MLB level.

I agree we need a new field staff in Philly. Just as he showed that Sandberg lacked management backing, Howard has shown that Pete also has no backing or authority.

I would try to sign Chapman as a FA. I would give Hellickson a QO, but I would be surprised if he stays in Philly.

I would promote Knapp as our backup catcher and leave Alfaro as the true #1 catcher at Allentown. Moore can back up Alfaro. Williams-Quinn-Goeddel are my Allentown OF. That leaves ? -- Herrera -- Altherr as our MLB OF, with perhaps Ruf and Perkins in reserve or really any other choice of 30-or-under AAAA OFs. I'm optimistic that Williams or Quinn can be the post-A.S. ? in the OF, so I guess I'd start the season with a youngish AAAA or Rule 5 guy.

The Phillies IF is Joseph, Hernandez, Galvis, Franco at least until AS break.

Yes, we can use a FA SP, especially if Hellickson walks. Yes, continue to audition a lot of AAAA, waiver claims, and Rule 5 types to fill out the pen.

This is the year the Phillies need to plan to blow through their international allocation. I also want them to spend on 23+ international talent. Really, the Phillies have made very limited use of their $ resources and that is a missed opportunity. More and more teams will get new stadia and bigger media contracts. The Braves are about to become a big-revenue team again. If we don't spend, they will lap us. They are now worse than us at the MLB level, but that won't last, unless we are more aggressive.

My biggest concern about the Phillies is that looking at Clearwater up to Philly, I see 'good' current and future major leaguers. I don't see stars. My serious question to those who see us building largely from within: whom do you see as our future stars? At this time last year, I thought both Crawford and Williams could be stars and that Knapp, Kingery, Cordero, and Thompson could be more than they currently appears to be. I can still see Alfaro as a star. If he can ever stay healthy, I can actually see Quinn as at least a near-star.

[Philsmania]

On the one hand, in many ways, it feels like 2015 ended better than 2016 is ending since it seemed that there were more encouraging signs a year ago than there are today. In 2015, we had impressive debuts by Franco, Herrera, Altherr and Nola in 2015 only to have all four of them suffer through regression, injuries or a combination of both. This year, the only real breakthroughs have been Rupp and, to a lesser extent, Neris & Ramos as possible closers of the near future. I would also say that Eickhoff proving that his fine ending to 2015 wasn't just a flash in the pan and he is a good ML pitcher is a positive to take out of this season. Meanwhile, up in Lehigh, we saw prospects like Knapp, Williams and Crawford all stall. Efflin seemed like a breakthrough but his chronic condition now very much clouds his future.

But, at the same time, looking at the run differential, I would have to say that this team probably overachieved and that is probably a credit to the manager and coaching staff, despite some mistakes they made. By and large, I agree with AF that 2017 is probably a shakedown season to find out who really is a part of the future and who isn't. Next season will be the real test of whether or not Mackanin and his staff are right for where the Phillies are.

A note on Crawford and Williams. It seems as though the two have been joined at the hip since the Phillies acquired Williams. Both excelled together but now both seem to be stumbling together. I don't know but perhaps keeping this duo together may not be a good thing, especially if Williams has possible character and/or maturity issues. If he's a threat to bring Crawford down with him, it might behoove the Phillies to try to sell high on him and move him this winter. Just a thought.

What's next? I agree Crawford should start next season at LHV. Find a veteran starter to fill a hole somehow and a stopgap veteran outfielder. I would like to see some changes in the player development system, namely moving Wathan up to LHV from Reading to allow him to continue the work he's done with the guys who he worked with in Reading this year. Plus, as a I said, the progress of position playing prospects under Brundage has been underwhelming. And, I can't help but wonder if Wathan just might be the Phillies manager of the future. That would remind me of what the Mets did in the '80's with Dave Johnson. He managed the Strawberries and the Goodens, et al. in the minors then grew with them at the ML level. I like Neris but I fully expect that Klentak will deal him this offseason based upon his comments at how amazed he was at the price other teams are placing on and paying for young, talented and controllable power bullpen arms. Perhaps he may trade Ramos too for that reason. Will they bring us back a young starter or starting-calibur outfielder in return. As for Hellickson, definitely QO him but don't extend him. He's just not that worth it.

I do have to say they do have a few interesting logjams. Knapp and Alfaro are one at catcher. I think Alfaro has the brighter future though since his skillset is better and he is better defensively. Stassi and Hoskins at first is another. Might Stassi be good trade bait? And then there's centerfield where we have Herrera, Quinn and even arguments can be made that Williams and Altherr are better there. Is Herrera never to return to second base? Just wondering.

So, for the 2017 Phillies, at least the first couple of months...

1B: Joseph
2B: Hernandez
SS: Galvis
3B: Franco
LF: Herrera or FA stopgap
CF: Herrera or FA stopgap
RF: Altherr
C: Rupp

Bench: Paredes and anyone's guess

Starting rotation:
Velazquez
Nola, if healthy
Efflin, if healthy
Thompson
And, for the fifth starter, a FA stopgap, Lively (though not until later in the season), Morgan (put up or shut up time for him), Buchanan and the Almighty help us.

If Nola and Efflin can't go, 2017 can and probably will end up being a very long season.

Bullpen: Expect a reprise of 2016 where we essentially had a cast of scrapheap finds (like Gomez), guys from the minors (like Neris and Ramos), Rule V picks (like Stumpf who in the end didn't stick) and reclamation projects (like Bailey, Mujica and Hernandez who didn't work out).

[xogfog]

As far as catcher goes, I'd waive Ellis and start 2017 with Knapp to platoon with Rupp with Rupp getting 60% of the workload. I want Alfaro getting the bulk of playing time at AAA so that Rupp can be moved at the deadline and Alfaro takes over.

[jimbomill]

In a holding pattern until the end of 2017, which is about where I expected them to be before the season starter, this year 70-75 wins with a young, inconsistent team, next year 75-85 wins depending on how the young pitchers develop and hold up.

C: Rupp has established himself, Alfaro goes to Lehigh, Knapp probably repeats at Lehigh
1B: Joseph gets a full year, Stassi?, Hoskins at Lehigh
2B: Hernandez has established himself, Valentin repeats at Lehigh, Kingery starts at Reading
SS: Galvis is establishing himself, top fielder with 15+ HRs, just needs to make better contact but has really improved since he fixed his swing, Crawford starts at Lehigh
3B: Franco regressed but flashes, his fielding is improving, no real alternative
LF: ???, Williams, Goeddel, Pullin at Lehigh
CF: Herrera has really regressed, Quinn at Lehigh
RF: Altherr, good enough to start, good enough to stay? Cozens at Lehigh
I see a veteran patch in LF, because Lehigh is loaded at every position but 3B, by the end of 2017 some decisions will have to be made but there is no hurry

SP: Velasquez, Eickhoff, Eflin, Nola? Thompson, Morgan, Asher, Hellickson QO, maybe resigned
RP: Neris, Ramos, Gomez, S Gonzalez, Garcia?
Pivetta, Lively, Pinto, Appel, Viza starters at Lehigh, Cordero, Arajuo, Rodriquez, Therrien in the pen

I think 2017 is the "shakeout cruise", there won't be much FA action other than a veteran LF.
A learning season at both the ML level and Lehigh, and a lot of jockeying for position for 2018, and decisions made on the field leading to offseason moves in winter 2017-18.

I think we need upgrades at most fielding positions. There's not a All-Star in the bunch. In 2008 we had All-Star caliber players at 4 of the 5 infield positions? What we have simply is not World Series material.

[allentown]

In a holding pattern until the end of 2017, which is about where I expected them to be before the season starter, this year 70-75 wins with a young, inconsistent team, next year 75-85 wins depending on how the young pitchers develop and hold up.

C: Rupp has established himself, Alfaro goes to Lehigh, Knapp probably repeats at Lehigh
1B: Joseph gets a full year, Stassi?, Hoskins at Lehigh
2B: Hernandez has established himself, Valentin repeats at Lehigh, Kingery starts at Reading
SS: Galvis is establishing himself, top fielder with 15+ HRs, just needs to make better contact but has really improved since he fixed his swing, Crawford starts at Lehigh
3B: Franco regressed but flashes, his fielding is improving, no real alternative
LF: ???, Williams, Goeddel, Pullin at Lehigh
CF: Herrera has really regressed, Quinn at Lehigh
RF: Altherr, good enough to start, good enough to stay? Cozens at Lehigh
I see a veteran patch in LF, because Lehigh is loaded at every position but 3B, by the end of 2017 some decisions will have to be made but there is no hurry

SP: Velasquez, Eickhoff, Eflin, Nola? Thompson, Morgan, Asher, Hellickson QO, maybe resigned
RP: Neris, Ramos, Gomez, S Gonzalez, Garcia?
Pivetta, Lively, Pinto, Appel, Viza starters at Lehigh, Cordero, Arajuo, Rodriquez, Therrien in the pen

I think 2017 is the "shakeout cruise", there won't be much FA action other than a veteran LF.
A learning season at both the ML level and Lehigh, and a lot of jockeying for position for 2018, and decisions made on the field leading to offseason moves in winter 2017-18.

I think we need upgrades at most fielding positions. There's not a All-Star in the bunch. In 2008 we had All-Star caliber players at 4 of the 5 infield positions? What we have simply is not World Series material.

It's not even contender material. We have a lot of guys who can be decent starters on a playoff team, if they are teamed with a couple of star position players. We don't have any of those star position players. That is the big problem. We also don't have a #1 and arguably also lack a #2 SP and a closer. So, rather than being able to fill in around cheap, home grown stars, we will need to add expensive FA, traded-for, or over-23 international FA stars. My current hope is that Crawford can be a plus MLB player, and Williams a solid MLB starter.

[Slinging_Southpaw]

As far as catcher goes, I'd waive Ellis and start 2017 with Knapp to platoon with Rupp with Rupp getting 60% of the workload. I want Alfaro getting the bulk of playing time at AAA so that Rupp can be moved at the deadline and Alfaro takes over.

I think trading Rupp would be a mistake. I was intrigued by the thought before the deadline(depending on the return of course), but watching this team tells me we need more leaders. More players that are willing to call someone out. Galvis has come around, but Franco, Herrera and Hernandez can be very frustrating to watch. The talent is obviously there, but the focus is not.
I've at least heard that Rupp is a leader in the locker room, I have no idea who else would be. Especially considering we have more young additions on the way like Nick Williams, who has been called out for lack of hustle.

[DurhamBull]

In a holding pattern until the end of 2017, which is about where I expected them to be before the season starter, this year 70-75 wins with a young, inconsistent team, next year 75-85 wins depending on how the young pitchers develop and hold up.

C: Rupp has established himself, Alfaro goes to Lehigh, Knapp probably repeats at Lehigh
1B: Joseph gets a full year, Stassi?, Hoskins at Lehigh
2B: Hernandez has established himself, Valentin repeats at Lehigh, Kingery starts at Reading
SS: Galvis is establishing himself, top fielder with 15+ HRs, just needs to make better contact but has really improved since he fixed his swing, Crawford starts at Lehigh
3B: Franco regressed but flashes, his fielding is improving, no real alternative
LF: ???, Williams, Goeddel, Pullin at Lehigh
CF: Herrera has really regressed, Quinn at Lehigh
RF: Altherr, good enough to start, good enough to stay? Cozens at Lehigh
I see a veteran patch in LF, because Lehigh is loaded at every position but 3B, by the end of 2017 some decisions will have to be made but there is no hurry

SP: Velasquez, Eickhoff, Eflin, Nola? Thompson, Morgan, Asher, Hellickson QO, maybe resigned
RP: Neris, Ramos, Gomez, S Gonzalez, Garcia?
Pivetta, Lively, Pinto, Appel, Viza starters at Lehigh, Cordero, Arajuo, Rodriquez, Therrien in the pen

I think 2017 is the "shakeout cruise", there won't be much FA action other than a veteran LF.
A learning season at both the ML level and Lehigh, and a lot of jockeying for position for 2018, and decisions made on the field leading to offseason moves in winter 2017-18.

I think we need upgrades at most fielding positions. There's not a All-Star in the bunch. In 2008 we had All-Star caliber players at 4 of the 5 infield positions? What we have simply is not World Series material.

To be fair, Herrera was an All-Star this season. I get your sentiment, though.

[LoneStarPhan]

In reality, we don't know what 2017 will bring. I appreciate the concern for the lack of advancement by several key prospects that seemed to be close to making the major league roster, but also realize that progress to the majors, even to star level status, is not always steady and consistent for all who eventually make it.

[del_ennis]

As far as catcher goes, I'd waive Ellis and start 2017 with Knapp to platoon with Rupp with Rupp getting 60% of the workload. I want Alfaro getting the bulk of playing time at AAA so that Rupp can be moved at the deadline and Alfaro takes over.

Ellis is a free agent after this year, no need to waive him.

[Slinging_Southpaw]

It has been a weird season...we are now tied with the Angels for the 9th-worst record in baseball (the 9th draft pick looking at the up-side). We are the worst team in baseball by far in run differential, and run differential is often a more reliable indicator of true talent level.

As much as I thought early this season we could contend in 2017, I don't think that's even remotely possible at this point, especially given the lack of free-agent options on the mound and the slow progress of our two top prospects (Williams and Crawford) this summer.

What's your off-season plan? I would:

1)Try to sign Helllickson to a 3 or 4 year deal; certainly give him the QO.
2)Get the young pitchers healthy. Limit innings in September. Look at usage patterns for next spring--consider a six-man rotation.
3)Sign a relief pitcher or two to stabilize the pen.
4)The free agent starters are really awful. Trade for a decent veteran starter.
5)Try to think outside the box for another starter...are their FA relievers who could convert to starting and be successful? AAAA pitchers who might be undervalued?
6)Change the on-field management team--this year has been bad for them in terms of both wins and development of talent.
7)Work with Franco and Herrera in terms of selectivity/plate discipline. They have both regressed in that respect. So has Williams, and Crawford has been too aggressive lately. Is this an organizational issue?
8)Leave Crawford and Williams in LV for at least the start of the season--make them prove they should be promoted.

4)If there is a Hellickson/Morton type deal(salary relief for little in way of prospects) to be made, sure.
5)Phil Klein? Audition could start soon.
6)I would give them another year. Youth can be maddening. Hopefully, next year we'll see a more mature team.

I'm good with everything else there.
I think having Howard out of the way will be a good thing.
One thing I would like to see is Tyler Goeddel playing some 3B(his original position) at AA or AAA and at Winter Ball. This could give him more options down the road.
I don't know what I would do with our 3rd outfield spot(assuming Herrera and Altherr). I'd like to see Herrera in LF and Altherr in CF, that would leave RF up for grabs. With Williams/Cozens/Quinn at AAA, we don't need anything more than a place holder to start the season. You could go with a bench L/R platoon there. Staying in the organization, Ruf/Asche could do that, though I'm sure many here wouldn't find that as a good option(plus they would be more suited for LF).
After a season of Bourjos in RF, I'm a little hesitant on going with the "Veteran Option", since I think Goeddel would have given us just as much if used the same way and we'd be further along in his development.

[teabag259]

If the recent slide continues and they have a serious September swoon how much further down the draft standings can they realistically fall? Could they get to 5 or 6?

[phillychuck]

If the recent slide continues and they have a serious September swoon how much further down the draft standings can they realistically fall? Could they get to 5 or 6?

If they play about .350 or below they could easily get to the top 5.

[Philsmania]

If the recent slide continues and they have a serious September swoon how much further down the draft standings can they realistically fall? Could they get to 5 or 6?

Been wondering the same myself. I wouldn't rule it out.

[Philsmania]

In reality, we don't know what 2017 will bring. I appreciate the concern for the lack of advancement by several key prospects that seemed to be close to making the major league roster, but also realize that progress to the majors, even to star level status, is not always steady and consistent for all who eventually make it.

Good point, especially when it comes to the development of ace pitchers. Some come out of the minors with an ace pedigree. Others blossom years down the road. By a show of hands, who here thought at the end of spring training in '92 that we had just acquired a future ace in Schilling?

[zambonir]

I don't know what I would do with our 3rd outfield spot(assuming Herrera and Altherr). I'd like to see Herrera in LF and Altherr in CF, that would leave RF up for grabs. With Williams/Cozens/Quinn at AAA, we don't need anything more than a place holder to start the season. You could go with a bench L/R platoon there. Staying in the organization, Ruf/Asche could do that, though I'm sure many here wouldn't find that as a good option(plus they would be more suited for LF).
After a season of Bourjos in RF, I'm a little hesitant on going with the "Veteran Option", since I think Goeddel would have given us just as much if used the same way and we'd be further along in his development.

Didn't we also think Bourjos was a good "placeholder" because Williams was going to be up by August 1 last year? For that matter, isn't Williams more ready now than Goedell was? Obviously he'd have to earn it in ST. I'm reluctant to assume anyone will fill a hole, but that doesn't mean I'd overspend to fill it either.

I think another Bourjos type is inevitable, someone who still makes a good 4th or 5th OF and can play good defense. Had Altherr been on the team all year and Williams (or even Quinn) come up, that's the role he would have played (and/or he would have been traded). Instead Bourjos started the season as our #2 OF and Goedell and all those AAAA players were #3 until Asche came back.

Bourjos was acquired off the wire/non-tender deadline, certainly you could argue that the Phillies should go out and spend money on a one-year free agent or a short-term upgrade on a bad contract instead. But if they still value defense more, the guys in the latter category don't necessarily bring that. The fantasy would be a younger AAAA sleeper or comebacking failed prospect but that's essentially what Lough was, they rarely turn into Jayson Werth or Brandon Moss.

That the Phillies still lack future stars in the minors just reminds that it's a long process to undo the Wolever/Amaro years. I still think next year is going to be bumpy, on purpose, that the Phillies are modelling themselves after the Astros, if a little less dramatically (they aren't gonna pick #1 again but a second Top 10 pick after this season would still be welcome). Some people don't believe this and many simply disagree with the choice, but this off-season will certainly tell the tale of whether it is true or not, whether it's the type of free agent signings or the type of trades they make (or don't make).

They should probably exercise Morton's option; who knows if he would even trigger his side of it, the pitching market being as slim as it is.

[Slinging_Southpaw]

I don't know what I would do with our 3rd outfield spot(assuming Herrera and Altherr). I'd like to see Herrera in LF and Altherr in CF, that would leave RF up for grabs. With Williams/Cozens/Quinn at AAA, we don't need anything more than a place holder to start the season. You could go with a bench L/R platoon there. Staying in the organization, Ruf/Asche could do that, though I'm sure many here wouldn't find that as a good option(plus they would be more suited for LF).
After a season of Bourjos in RF, I'm a little hesitant on going with the "Veteran Option", since I think Goeddel would have given us just as much if used the same way and we'd be further along in his development.

Didn't we also think Bourjos was a good "placeholder" because Williams was going to be up by August 1 last year? For that matter, isn't Williams more ready now than Goeddel was? Obviously he'd have to earn it in ST. I'm reluctant to assume anyone will fill a hole, but that doesn't mean I'd overspend to fill it either.

I think another Bourjos type is inevitable, someone who still makes a good 4th or 5th OF and can play good defense. Had Altherr been on the team all year and Williams (or even Quinn) come up, that's the role he would have played (and/or he would have been traded). Instead Bourjos started the season as our #2 OF and Goeddel and all those AAAA players were #3 until Asche came back.

Bourjos was acquired off the wire/non-tender deadline, certainly you could argue that the Phillies should go out and spend money on a one-year free agent or a short-term upgrade on a bad contract instead. But if they still value defense more, the guys in the latter category don't necessarily bring that. The fantasy would be a younger AAAA sleeper or comebacking failed prospect but that's essentially what Lough was, they rarely turn into Jayson Werth or Brandon Moss.

That the Phillies still lack future stars in the minors just reminds that it's a long process to undo the Wolever/Amaro years. I still think next year is going to be bumpy, on purpose, that the Phillies are modelling themselves after the Astros, if a little less dramatically (they aren't gonna pick #1 again but a second Top 10 pick after this season would still be welcome). Some people don't believe this and many simply disagree with the choice, but this off-season will certainly tell the tale of whether it is true or not, whether it's the type of free agent signings or the type of trades they make (or don't make).

They should probably exercise Morton's option; who knows if he would even trigger his side of it, the pitching market being as slim as it is.

I think so too, but no one currently on the Free Agent List would fit the bill for me.

[bkeich]

In a perfect world the owners would actually open up the salary for a quality LF in a trade that we could flip for prospects.

Sadly I seriously doubt this will happen and we will get another dumpster dive that has no real value.

I assume that Hellickson will turn down the QO, hopefully we get the draft pick as I consider that much better value than the Marginal value of a league average starter.