Pat Neshek Traded to Colorado for Three Minor League Players

[VoteForKalas]

The other interesting point is that Neshek says he'd like to come back to Philly next season.

I think players say a lot of rosy things on their way from a doormat to a contender in thanks to the organization that gave them what they wanted.

We'll see what happens, but I doubt if he has other good options that he would come back here

[phillychuck]

This is a very good point, nyc. I'm not claiming Klentak has been offered better deals and isn't taking them, just that the deal he got isn't as good as deals for similar players (Phelps, Madson) that were out there. I agree with you that Klentak seems to respect both scouting and analytics (and our drafts seem to be very analytic-driven), and that's a good thing. I just don't know that he's a very good poker player when negotiating--the evidence seems to indicate otherwise.

[Squire]

So when do these guys need to be on the 40 man roster? Gomez and Requena after the 2018 season and Hammer after the 2019 season, right?

The other question is who is losing playing time at Lakewood - Gamboa?

[Austinfan]

Neshak is not as good as Madson. Hands down. Madson can setup or close if needed.
And Doolittle was also part of that trade, a LH RP with a ridiculous K/IP ratio.

In return, Oakland got Treinen, a 29 year RP, having an awful season after three pretty good years.
Luzardo, 19, is a 2016 third-round draft pick who underwent Tommy John surgery in March 2016. Now #5 on Oakland.
Neuse, 22, was a second-round draft pick in 2016 and was ranked as the Nationals' No. 7 prospect before the season. Now #13 on Oakland.

Phelps is under control through 2018, more durable than Neshak, he can start if needed.
Hernandez at age 19 (20 in September), is still in high rookie ball because he has yet to hit, good defensively
Miller 22 is a back of the rotation/RP prospect. FB 9-1-93, plus slider
Lopez 21 has three average pitches, 90-93 coming off TJ surgery, good control
Schiraldi 23 has a mediocre showing but high K rate in A+ ball

Hernandez #7, Miller #19, Lopez #22 is in the Marlins top 30,
However, Hernandez is all projection, right now he has no hit tool.
Lopez is also primarily projection.
A good haul but no blue chipper, not sure any would make the Phillies top 20 (Hernandez would be behind Moniak, Haseley, and Tocci as an CF prospect, Tocci is 21 in Reading hitting over .300 with excellent defense).

[andyb]

One of the players will need to be protected...

Both Gomez and Requena have 4 years of experience so they have one more year before they would need to be protected. Though to be fair neither have loud tools and if they finish next year in Clearwater after a good season they will probably not be seen as huge risks to be selected. I think Gomez ends up playing lots of 3B because Gamboa and Brito are better defensively in the middle infield. Luke Williams may be the odd man out next year with Stobbe the likely 3B at Lakewood. Not that Williams has really earned a promotion of course.

Hammer is a 2016 college draftee so he should have 2 more years before he needs to be protected.

[andyb]

Neshak is not as good as Madson. Hands down.

Other than durability, Neshek is probably better than Madson in every other respect. He also has a much more consistent track record of success with no injury worries. It is also not like Neshek cannot close. He just can't do it with the durability you ideally want in a closer. And frankly Madson is beyond that point also.

There is no reason to keep slamming a pitcher with a 1.12 ERA who strikes out 10 per 9 innings while only walking 1.1. He is really good. Madson has pitched a grand total of 3 more innings this year. He is also good (1.87 ERA, 9.1 K, 1.5 BB/9). But to say he is "hands down" better than Neshek is just plain wrong.

[Squire]

I think MLB.com will slot Gomez in at 26 in our Top 30.

[DurhamBull]

According to Zolecki, all 3 of the players the Phils got were Sally League All-Stars this year, for what that's worth.

My hope is that this trade means I'll see less of people misspelling "Neshek".

Good luck, Pat, and thanks for a great season!

[Austinfan]

Neshek was our 7th inning pitcher.
Madson has been an 8th inning pitcher and a closer at times. 30 saves last year.

Think the concern with Neshek is him wearing down, with Madson, him breaking down.
Madson alleviated concerns by handling a full workload the last two years.

Biggest reason Madson is valued higher is he's a traditional FB/change/CB pitcher, teams may think Neshek is a bit of a "smoke and mirrors" pitcher.

[bigegypt0417]

Neshek is a bit of a "smoke and mirrors" pitcher.

Then he's been that his entire career. I'm sorry but you cant keep trotting this out when he's been a good RP for a very long time.

[allentown]

Then he's been that his entire career. I'm sorry but you cant keep trotting this out when he's been a good RP for a very long time.

Very true. By AF's logic, Jamie Moyer should never have won a game for the Phillies.

[bigegypt0417]

Then he's been that his entire career. I'm sorry but you cant keep trotting this out when he's been a good RP for a very long time.

Very true. By AF's logic, Jamie Moyer should never have won a game for the Phillies.

But also should never have been traded because he's worthless.

[andyb]

Neshek was our 7th inning pitcher.
Madson has been an 8th inning pitcher and a closer at times. 30 saves last year.

Think the concern with Neshek is him wearing down, with Madson, him breaking down.
Madson alleviated concerns by handling a full workload the last two years.

Biggest reason Madson is valued higher is he's a traditional FB/change/CB pitcher, teams may think Neshek is a bit of a "smoke and mirrors" pitcher.

You keep trotting out this 7th or 8th inning stuff. Both pitchers are fine in big innings. And Madson has pitched 3 more innings all year than Neshek. He was durable when he was 27 but he is now 36 and has not pitched more than 64.2 innings in a year since 2009. Neshek threw 67.1 in 2014. There is just not much difference in durability.

And Neshek has been great. 2.76 career ERA. Nothing over 3.62 since 2012. It is also not smoke and mirrors. In the same way Madson deceives with a changeup, Neshek deceives with a quirky motion and a really good slider.

There is just no case that "hands down" Madson is better. At worst the two are roughly equal.

[Austinfan]

In your opinion, not the league's opinion.
You think Klentak was offered the same deal for Neshek and turned it down?

[Squire]

FWIW, Seidman says that Jose Gomez has to be protected this year on the 40 man roster. That might be a tough decision.

[nycphils]

Seems highly unlikely to be selected

[bigegypt0417]

In your opinion, not the league's opinion.
You think Klentak was offered the same deal for Neshek and turned it down?

Your opinion doesn't mean its the leagues opinion.

Neshak is not smoke and mirrors and it doesn't really matter how many times you trot that out since his career shows you're incorrect.

Crashburn Alley – Phillies Trade Pat Neshek, Now What?

[allentown]

FWIW, Seidman says that Jose Gomez has to be protected this year on the 40 man roster. That might be a tough decision.

Signed July 3, 2013 so this is indeed his fifth year.

[andyb]

I guess we were surprised by Tocci. I wonder if something about the bonus payment triggered a contract before the year they actually play. Not sure it means much because a guy without loud tools in Low A is just not going to be selected on someone's major league roster. Should be an easy decision NOT to protect Gomez.

[andyb]

Signed July 3, 2013 so this is indeed his fifth year.

But so was Requena. They were both J2 2013 signings. Typically a player signs a 2014 contract but in some cases like with Tocci that is moved up a year. Normally a young international signee plays 5 years before being eligible like a HS signee. Not sure what the exact rule of custom is here.

Now none of these guys would be selected this year so it is not a huge problem.