Pat Neshek Traded to Colorado for Three Minor League Players

[Austinfan]

Winkelman agrees with my assessment of Neshek:

"The Phillies were never going to get a real impact player for Pat Neshek, he is almost 37 years old and an upcoming free agent. While he is having a career year, his track record over 11 major league seasons is that he is more of a 6th/7th inning reliever than the lights out guy he has been so far. It also further complciates things for a contender that he is limited to one inning stints and there was some controversy about his ability to go multiple days in a row. "

[bigegypt0417]

Winkelman agrees with my assessment of Neshek:

"The Phillies were never going to get a real impact player for Pat Neshek, he is almost 37 years old and an upcoming free agent. While he is having a career year, his track record over 11 major league seasons is that he is more of a 6th/7th inning reliever than the lights out guy he has been so far. It also further complciates things for a contender that he is limited to one inning stints and there was some controversy about his ability to go multiple days in a row. "

They got 3 young players at various stages of development. They seem to have taken a different approach.

[bigegypt0417]

Gomez strikes me as a potential bench guy...his numbers a are decent and he has some speed.

[phillychuck]

He has another year left according to the records data on the Fangraphs site, but he was signed in July of 2013 (although he didn't play). If they signed him to a 2013 contract, he indeed does have to be protected from being poached in the rule 5 draft this year. That means he'd probably have to be on the AAA roster because I don't think anyone is going to carry him on a big-league roster all year at his age and experience level.

[andyb]

Fangraphs and BA articles (did not see them linked but I could have missed something).

Rockies Acquire Pat Neshek, Want to Kill You with Sliders | FanGraphs Baseball

Scouting Philadelphia’s Return for Pat Neshek | FanGraphs Baseball

Rockies Bulk Up Bullpen With Neshek | BaseballAmerica.com

[Squire]

MLB.com slotted Gomez on the Phillies list at #19 after Romero but before Brito (20), Elniery Garcia (21) Jhailyn Ortiz (22)

[Austinfan]

Well, that's ridiculous. Ortiz's upside is way above the other three.
El Garcia was hurt by his suspension.
Brito is a good comparable, both have the hit tool, but without power and a position, their upside is limited.

[andyb]

MLB.com slotted Gomez on the Phillies list at #19 after Romero but before Brito (20), Elniery Garcia (21) Jhailyn Ortiz (22)

They have a tendency to over-rank guys that were just traded. Happens every year. They were really high on guys like Valentin and Windle after they were traded too.

[phillychuck]

Brito is good enough defensively to stick at 2B with plus defense and probably play adequate SS in the big leagues. I don't see how he doesn't have a position. Gomez is an average at best 2B who might be better at 3B. Gomez should probably be about 5-15 sots below Brito. As andyb says, they tend to over-rank traded players.

MLB.com hasn't gotten the message on Ortiz yet. That's just a bad ranking.

[bigegypt0417]

My guess they will get the message next year at Lakewood.

[zambonir]

Neshek is good, but baseball values closing experience, and eighth inning experience. Plus Madson was controllable and came with Doolittle.

And I've read negative things about what the Mariners got for Phelps, that it was mostly window dressing.

The Phillies turned a worthless asset into a tangible asset, that much is undeniable.

I think we tend to misuse the term "lottery ticket." There was a better chance of Andrew Amaro making the major leagues than there is of anyone ever winning the lottery, so to me anyone that you would call "organization filler" is also a lottery ticket.

As for Neshek coming back, I would think the Phillies would have to offer him a two-year deal, if he also wants to win, though maybe at his age he can't expect that. And regardless of how good he's been for his whole career he's unlikely to repeat this season.

[phillychuck]

It might take until Ortiz is at CLW, Lakewood is such a horrible place for hitters (don't tell Darick Hall...).

Actually Henri Lartigue is hitting well for a catcher at Lakewood, too, in a pretty large sample size. Wonder if he's considered any kind of a prospect. Needs to increase his walk percentage a bit, but otherwise has good peripherals.

[schillingfan]

I'm bummed that I won't be watching Neshek pitch now. His sidearm delivery was so cool and I would be mesmerized watching him pitch.

[allentown]

Actually Henri Lartigue is hitting well for a catcher at Lakewood, too, in a pretty large sample size. Wonder if he's considered any kind of a prospect

College junior, who got a $220K bonus as a 7th-rounder, so I think the Phillies regarded him as legit, if not top, prospect when he was drafted. A not great-with-the-bat 2016, sees him at Lakewood, rather than CLW. He certainly has decent BA, HR-rate, and OPS this year, but 4 Ks to the walk and that gives him an OBP barely north of .300. On draft day, Matt Winkelman noted that Lartigue had only converted to catcher in college and needed work on his defense. Winkelman saw him at the time as a back-up catcher.

[Austinfan]

I read in a number of places one reason catchers take time to hit in many cases is their first few years they're focused on the nuances of catching, and this is probably doubly true for players like Numata and Lartigue who are recent converts.

[andyb]

I read in a number of places one reason catchers take time to hit in many cases is their first few years they're focused on the nuances of catching, and this is probably doubly true for players like Numata and Lartigue who are recent converts.

But not Alfaro of course...

[Austinfan]

When did Alfaro start catching? Since at least 17 in the DSL.
Now he's 24.

[andyb]

When did Alfaro start catching? Since at least 17 in the DSL.
Now he's 24.

Which is kind of exactly when Numata and Lartigue picked up catching. Alfaro did not catch as an amateur (and also came from a more remote baseball background in Colombia so likely had lesser instruction than the typical drafted HS player in the U.S.

It is fine to not like Alfaro because he is raw and lacks strike zone judgement. But don't make excuses for other catchers and then say they don't apply to Alfaro. I still trust the scouts that say he is a good prospect. I have also seen the power and it is greater than your favorite Rupp (as raw power). It will show up in games eventually and he has a whole lot more bat speed that one can more easily see a consistent 20 HR bat. Even with a low OBP that will play in the majors just fine as long as he irons out the raw aspects of his defense.

He probably splits the job next year with Knapp. That would be the best long term decision for the franchise.

[Squire]

Looks like Gomez and Hammer were assigned to Clearwater and Requena was sent to Lakewood

[nycphils]

The more I look, the more I think this is a reasonable return for Neshek.

For example, Requena's size and stuff profile sounds similar to Seabold or Howard, but he's been succeeding at a younger age and at a higher level than those two recent high draft picks. Even if you think they were overdrafts, it wasn't drastic so I think Requena was a good addition to the trade - and maybe (total speculation) the Phillies think there are fixes to boost his velocity by a couple of mph - hard to know.

Gomez is looked at as a bat first, likely solid MLB utility guy who will be able to play 2d/ss/3b already and can probably learn to handle OF and 1B. Kind of a future Gregg Dobbs with more versatility.

hammer is Tirado #2 - maybe he never gets it together, but an arm like that (97+ on the FB) is worth a chance.