2017 Trade Deadline Rumors/Speculation/Discussion

[bkox]

Mets traded Lucas Duda to the Rays for the Rays 30th ranked prospect RHP Drew Smith.

Duda has an OPS almost 100 points higher then Joseph and a longer track record. So expecting to get anything of value for Joseph seems very unlikely.

[andyb]

The years of inexpensive control for Joseph do have some trade value that Duda does not. Duda is a better player, but you can have Joseph for 4 more years (and a couple of them will be inexpensive years).

I would not expect much for Joseph, but if they find a team with a need to return should be around the level of what Duda got for those extra years of inexpensive control.

[schillingfan]

You, of course, are referring to guys like Jose Gomez, Alejandro Requena, and JD Hammer, right?

Could be. Since I know nothing about any of them and rely on what the knowledgeable peeps on this board say. What I was trying to say is you wouldn't want too many guys in trades just for the sake of getting "something" for the one year free agents we signed over the winter. Sometimes "nothing" can be better than "anything." If we think the guys we drafted, assuming they were organizational filler, non-prospects you get in trades, are likely better, why get them if you don't have room on your lower minors' rosters to play them?

[Austinfan]

In A ball, you have your share of college seniors and marginal college juniors, and Klentak has actually been more aggressive about moving them out.
You also tend not to play younger players every day, because the mental grind can wear them down.
So in most cases, especially pitchers where you want to limit IP, it's not that hard to find PT for "real" prospects.

As you get up to AA and AAA ball, starters tend to play full-time, but talent attrition makes it hard to field eight starters who are real prospects.

So I don't think it's that hard to find room for legitimate prospects.

[andyb]

Not sure the Phillies philosophy of promoting prospects midseason has changed that much. Jordan was hired back in 2011 so it is not exactly new. When players are really young we like them to play the whole year at the level. Maybe there is a last week move to get them on a playoff team but that is rare. They did not do that with Moniak. When they are at least 20 or 21 (like with Grullon) they are more open to midseason promotions. I could see them do that with Randolph too if Reading is likely in the playoffs and Clearwater is not. Remember they did this with Cozens.

Any change happened 5 years ago with Jordan. Now they seem to be medium aggressive once they hit 20 or 21 and that seems to be a good strategy. Top prospects should always play at the best level for their development. Lesser prospects like Bossart should fit in around the better ones like Grullon.

[zambonir]

I would not expect much for Joseph, but if they find a team with a need to return should be around the level of what Duda got for those extra years of inexpensive control.

I think that would be selling low, though I don't know how you build his value any further if you're gonna call up Hoskins. But if you wait until the offseason you could swap him for a pitcher (starting depth or decent reliever) or a LH bench bat.

[bkox]

Rays acquire RP Dan Jennings from the ChiSox for Casey Gillaspie. Gillaspie was ranked #74 by BA pre-2017 rankings. Has had a horrible 2017 but MLB pipeline puts him at #14 in the stocked ChiSox system

[tom81]

I don't understand the unanimity on this board that Joseph or Hoskins has to be traded this year or offseason. It would be great if we got a premium offer for one of them in a position of need but one of them can play 1B in AAA next year. Certainly they are not blocking any real prospect next year. A little competition for the ML spot in spring training might be a healthy thing for the team. It might also be s good thing to have someone ready to step in in case of injury or terrible performance. Joseph has options left, if Hoskins beats him out let him play at LV and work on improving his game.

[zambonir]

I pretty much agree with this. For that matter, Joseph's value might not ever get higher because his best use will always be DH/part-time player. Keeping him as insurance through at least next July wouldn't be the end of the world.

But at the same time, carrying two RH 1Bs on both the 40 and the 25 isn't necessarily the best roster management.

I don't think it's board unanimity so much as what every article telegraphs about the Phillies' thoughts. It just seems like they have already made their decision, they would trade Joseph if anyone offered something decent and are confident Hoskins will make the transition. And the sooner he makes it the sooner he gets through any bumps or slumps, including next season.

Like I said, I don't need a premium offer, but the Phillies have two of the same guy, if they can find another team that has two of something they don't have, that would be ideal.

[allentown]

This is where courage is called for. If the Phillies hold all of Joseph, Galvis, Hernandez, Rupp into ST/July just to be a little more 'sure' of Hoskins, Crawford, Kingery, Alfaro then they lose guys in Rule 5 that really shouldn't be lost. I want Joseph, Rupp, and Galvis or Hernandez gone before the 40-mans need to be set so we can protect 3 more prospects. Next year is not a contention year, so if one or two of the rookie replacements stumbles a little in the first season, it's not the end of the world. We can sign AAAA protection over the winter. Depending upon the offers, AF may be right that trading Alfaro rather than Rupp makes some sense. Alfaro has both two large tools and two obvious gaps in his game.

[EDmuch]

With Gray, Darvish and Verlander still on the market, and others such as Lance Lynn perhaps being put on the market, I see little likelihood that Hellickson will draw any serious interest in the next three days. Seems that he, along with Kendrick and Nava may turn out to be more like waiver wire candidates in August.

[bigegypt0417]

With Gray, Darvish and Verlander still on the market, and others such as Lance Lynn perhaps being put on the market, I see little likelihood that Hellickson will draw any serious interest in the next three days. Seems that he, along with Kendrick and Nava may turn out to be more like waiver wire candidates in August.

Hellickson, if he did garner interest, would not be a target of the teams targeting those pitchers. Hellickson would be for a team looking for a rental and looking to give up a bucket of balls compared to those names.

[Philsmania]

With Gray, Darvish and Verlander still on the market, and others such as Lance Lynn perhaps being put on the market, I see little likelihood that Hellickson will draw any serious interest in the next three days. Seems that he, along with Kendrick and Nava may turn out to be more like waiver wire candidates in August.

Hellickson, if he did garner interest, would not be a target of the teams targeting those pitchers. Hellickson would be for a team looking for a rental and looking to give up a bucket of balls compared to those names.

Just as the cost of Hellickson's contract makes it unlikely that he would be claimed on waivers in August, the even more costly contracts of Verlander and Darvish make it equally unlikely that they would be claimed.

[bigegypt0417]

With Gray, Darvish and Verlander still on the market, and others such as Lance Lynn perhaps being put on the market, I see little likelihood that Hellickson will draw any serious interest in the next three days. Seems that he, along with Kendrick and Nava may turn out to be more like waiver wire candidates in August.

Hellickson, if he did garner interest, would not be a target of the teams targeting those pitchers. Hellickson would be for a team looking for a rental and looking to give up a bucket of balls compared to those names.

Just as the cost of Hellickson's contract makes it unlikely that he would be claimed on waivers in August, the even more costly contracts of Verlander and Darvish make it equally unlikely that they would be claimed.

I'm not really sure that would be true with Darvish...he's a FA after this year.

[EDmuch]

I never said Verlander or Darvish would be claimed on waivers. I was suggesting that they would be the subject of trades by Monday and that Hellickson would be left on the waiver vines.

[allentown]

Today's start may say a lot about whether or not Hellickson is tradable before the deadline. His 4.73 season ERA is poor, but his 6.19 ERA over his last 3 starts is awful.

[Lawman]

I wonder if this was a missed opportunity to move Tommy Joseph

https://sports.yahoo.com/rays-continue-playoff-push-acquire-lucas-duda-mets-215749983.html

[Austinfan]

Nope. Duda is a LH bat with an OPS of .879, lifetime OPS of .801.
So as a rental, he has a lot more value than Joseph.
And he only garnered a RP

[Austinfan]

Hellickson has been bad since April, his average velocity is down a notch, but it's bounced back the last month or so.
I think his arm is getting weaker, but it's showing itself more in command than velocity.
His changeup went from a ++ pitch last year to a minus pitch this year, partially command (leaving them up) but also hitters are probably looking for it.

May to July: 82.1 90 20 27 54 5.68
Basically below replacement since April. And he's now a 5 inning pitcher.
Dead meat third time through the lineup with an OBA of .417 (1.028 OPS)

[Squire]

Total speculation but elbow problems on David Price could put Boston in the market for a starter. They don't have the ammunition for Darvish or Gray so perhaps they might consider Hellickson. I wouldn't need much back at all.