2017 Trade Deadline Rumors/Speculation/Discussion

[allentown]

Because he's force to learn a new position, which he likely isn't physically well suited for in terms of arm strength and quick reaction time, while adjusting to the National League offensively. He is a very good defensive 2B. Why tamper with that? Let Dee Gordon struggle at 3B.

[allentown]

I really hope not. Kingery is the closest thing to a future star position player we have on the farm. There is a reasonable chance that he can be that.

[bigegypt0417]

I really hope not. Kingery is the closest thing to a future star position player we have on the farm. There is a reasonable chance that he can be that.

What do you expect to give up to get yelich?

[nycphils]

I suspect what's being vented is frustration that Klentak can't accelerate what is a deep rebuild, RA had the opportunity from 2012-2015, but whether he blew it or the FO tied his hands, we don't know right now.

Either way, Klentak just doesn't have that many assets, it's too late to overspend in LA and he did trade for allocations, so they're spending real money. The supply of over-23 Cubans has dried up, they probably don't have a shot at the Japanese star (they usually prefer the West Coast and he may want to go to an AL team to DH).

There are no deadline trades that are going to move the needle, at best we get one second tier and a couple third and fourth tier prospects - we have lots of those.
There is no way to make Moniak fast forward to age 22, 15 lbs of muscle and gap power.

The farm system has been rebuilt, the first wave of talent is arriving this year and next year, the second wave in 2020. It won't be until they know what they have in the first wave, and the second wave is close to shore, that they can realistically pull off big deals.

So we quibble about nonsense.

This is a fair summary.

[nycphils]

What do you expect to give up to get yelich?

I still think the way to go is to take Stanton together with Yellich and trade much less in terms of talent - Cozens or the like and a couple of middling prospect SP, for example. The contract will look more reasonable after next offseason and he keeps himself in great shape so seems like a reasonable risk, especially for a team with no payroll commitments at this point and an ability to buy down the contract in the out years to move him if need be. For now, .900+ OPS players are pretty scarce around the Phils.

[bigegypt0417]

Just as an FYI...you believe cozens and some middling prospects for Yelich/Gordon is reasonable?

Yelich is 25 and already one of the better CF'ers in the NL.

You're going to give up a premium prospect...

[Squire]

I'd be OK with dealing any or all: Nick Williams, Dylan Cozens, Franklyn Kilome, Mickey Moniak, etc. in the right deal

Right now the only untouchables in my eyes are: Hoskins, Kingery, Sixto, Crawford and Alfaro (Haseley's not dealable yet).

[David_Criss]

Crawford, to me, would not be on an untouchable list.

[allentown]

What do you expect to give up to get yelich?

I'd sooner take on bad salaries than ship a load of talent. On my personal ranking, Kingery is now our #1 prospect and I don't trade him. Period. Guys I would be willing to trade, along with $: Odubel, Joseph, Rupp, Galvis, Franco, Cozens, Williams, Quinn, Pullin, Perkins, Hernandez, Valentin. If they want a pitcher, we've got less available. They won't want Hellickson. I'd part with Lively, Eshelman, Thompson, Morgan, Velasquez. Those are the guys I'd part with in the right trade. My big goal is to increase the level of talent in the organization, not trade equal for equal. I think we'll have home-grown OF by the time we are contenders, but Yelich could solidify the OF faster.

[bigegypt0417]

Crawford, to me, would not be on an untouchable list.

You're selling too low...same with Moniak.

This is where fans of the minors get stuck IMO...we love our prospects and don't realize you won't get a premium talent for guys off of your second list.

[allentown]

We won't contend next year or the following year, so our view on trading top prospects for established MLB players shouldn't be the same as a contender's. I'm not trading Kingery as part of a Yelich deal.

[bigegypt0417]

We won't contend next year or the following year, so our view on trading top prospects for established MLB players shouldn't be the same as a contender's. I'm not trading Kingery as part of a Yelich deal.

That changes when the player you're bringing back is 25 years old and an established major leaguer who is getting better. the guy you're getting will be 2 years older than the guys you're trading.

[nycphils]

If you were responding to me, don't think you read carefully...for Yellich and Stanton, where the Phils relieve the Marlins of the full Stanton contact? Yes, I don't think they will do much better than that. No one wants that obligation in the long term. Cozens, Eshelman, Anderson, for example, with maybe a reliever like Yacksel Rios or similar, would seem like a good deal for both sides. If they want Tocci instead of one of the pitchers, I'd do that to.

[Austinfan]

Kingery is not playing 3B, lacks the arm. He'll practice there b/c you have to have him ready in case of an in-game emergency.
Crawford might be tried there, but I think Franco is slowly turning it around.

I definitely think Klentak would use his salary room to facilitate a deal, but I'll wait until a trade happens.
He could always pick up Gordon, then take on half his salary to move him to a third team.
If the Phillies ate $18M, a team might take a chance on a 3 yr/$18M deal.

[Squire]

I'm legitimately confused by what you are saying. You say that trading Moniak is selling too low on him but then also say that we Phillies phans overrate our own prospects?

[andyb]

If we actually dealt for Yelich one probably could assume that Moniak would have to be in the deal for Miami. Same type of player so he is not needed as much if we have Yelich for 5+ years. And we can't trade Haseley till the end of the season because he is a new draftee. Moniak is a little redundant on a team with Yelich on the major league roster and Haseley coming up in a couple of years.

Not that I would want to do that deal. Or get Gordon unless the theory is to move Gordon to another team.

[bigegypt0417]

I'm legitimately confused by what you are saying. You say that trading Moniak is selling too low on him but then also say that we Phillies phans overrate our own prospects?

No...what I'm saying is there is a price to pay for bringing back a major league talent like yelich who is young and signed for the next 4 or 5 years. Even taking back Gordon is simply a question of money.

Trading Crawford and Moniak is selling low.

Trading kingery is a risk but selling very high.

You don't get Yelich by giving up the guys on your second list.

[bigegypt0417]

If we actually dealt for Yelich one probably could assume that Moniak would have to be in the deal for Miami. Same type of player so he is not needed as much if we have Yelich for 5+ years. And we can't trade Haseley till the end of the season because he is a new draftee. Moniak is a little redundant on a team with Yelich on the major league roster and Haseley coming up in a couple of years.

Not that I would want to do that deal. Or get Gordon unless the theory is to move Gordon to another team.

Based on the progression it would seem moniak might be ready around the time you are ready to move Yelich. Haseley is the guy I'm not sure they'll know what to do with although can he be moved to RF and keep his value?

[Austinfan]

Moniak in a Yelich deal would make sense, especially with Herrera on a long-term deal, Altherr and Haseley on board.
Plus I think they'e pleasently suprised by Tocci this season at Reading, only 2 years older than Moniak, probably as good defensively and hitting much better (no power, but good OBP).
But this kind of deal would have to heavily in favor of the Phillies in return for taking on a lot of salary to make sense, otherwise you're just shuffling deck chairs.

Rumors tossing around Moniak, Cozens and Kilome. That sounds more reasonable for the Phillies, with Sanchez and Medina emerging, Kilome is expendable, Cozens is a year away with Haseley as a fast riser and Ortiz looking like a young monster.

Kingery
Crawford (if he turns it around)
Yelich
Franco
Hoskins
Altherr
Herrera
Knapp/Rupp/Alfaro

Not a bad lineup for 2018-19

[Squire]

Moniak is still consistently rated among the best 50ish prospects in baseball. I don't think making him the centerpiece of a 3-4 prospect package is selling low on him. Just my opinion.