2017 Season Phillies Discussion (News/Notes, etc.), continued

[Lawman]

The best trade ever made by the Phillies could be this one:

Phillies' 1989 trade for Sal Agostinelli still reaping rewards

[allentown]

That is a really nice article. It leaves up in the air the mystery of why all TPTB have rightfully thought so very highly of Sal and his organization, but not provided him with more bonus $ to spend. You would also think that with a guy like Sal on board that the Phillies would have been big players in the over-23 international market.

[jimbomill]

I dunno, that Carlton trade worked out well

[phillychuck]

As did the Stocker-Abreu deal.

[jimbomill]

Good point!

[California_Dreamin]

While I enjoyed the article, it left me with the one nagging question..."if the Phils so believe Sal is their MVP [something that both Arbuckle AND Amaro acknowledged], why in the heck didn't either of them fight harder to give Sal more money to work his magic?

This seems like such an obvious question, especially during the Amaro regime. I always thought the Phils drafted incredibly well during the Arbuckle run and always felt the organization began to crumble the day they selected Amaro over Arbuckle. But I digress.

While I agree that Sal has found some great gems without spending lots of money, doesn't it seem obvious that he could find even some greater gems by having more money? Sure seems so to me.

And this also dovetails into another discussion here on this site...why so many of the lower draft picks seem to do well while the team struggles to get the right guy with their top picks? Because I believe that while I can salute the Hall's, Young's and Altherr's of the Phillie World I know that in the end it will be the Moniak's, Gowdy's, Stobbe's and Haseley's of the System that are more likely to determine whether or not the team rises to the top of the baseball world instead of wallowing in the bottom.

I am still on the Almaraz Train but think he has two more drafts before it will be time to evaluate his performance. Sort of like a new college football coach and his recruiting classes. By the time that class is in its sophomore/junior years it becomes pretty obvious whether or not the coach had the right eye for talent.

[zambonir]

It's not often I actually enjoy and agree with one of Rendell's sports columns. I was actually hoping to go Tuesday myself, but I won't be in town.

Baseball doubleheaders? People will come! | Ed Rendell

[LoneStarPhan]

I really enjoyed the article on the doubleheader. The first four baseball games I attended were two double headers in Cincinnati. The Reds vs. the Giants and the Reds vs. the Phillies. I am pretty sure it was in 1950. Then in the years up to 1960, it was only double headers that I ever went to in Philadelphia. We did the train several times. It started in Harrisburg and ran to Phila on a Sunday for a double header. A couple times we drove, but again, only to a double header. I think the first time I ever went to a ML game that wasn't a double header was at Yankee Stadium in 1959. I loved double headers, not only going to the ballpark, but listening on radio. We only got games on TV on Saturday and Sunday, but I'm sure they only televised the first game of the doubleheaders.

Today, things are different. I don't think double headers would do as well today as they did in the 1950s. I also understand the clubs reluctance to lose revenue dates.

[schooldoc]

A huge night for Manny Machado tonight in Baltimore--3 HR & 7 RBI including a walk off grand slam, to bail out old friend Jeremy Hellickson.

Why bring that up here? Well, we might need a third baseman if Maikel Franco's last stand does not go well next year. And as I'm sure most of y'all know, Machado is a FA after 2018 and we have lots of cash to spend. Machado will be 26 years of age when (not if...he's not signing an extension with the O's) he hits the market.

You can count me in.

[zambonir]

Someone is going to trade for him though. Can it be the Phillies? Probably a better chance in the off-season than at the deadline. If a top team does get him next deadline will he still hit the open market?

[LoneStarPhan]

Yes, a team can trade for him, but unless he wants to sign with that team, he still hits the free agent market after next season. I really don't know his thinking, but being only one year from free agency, he may well want to test the market. I guess if a team trades for him and offers him record breaking numbers, he might sign the contract extension, but I don't see that as a given.

[mdougherty12]

The Yankees could certainly use a third baseman going forward, and they actually don't have a ton of money committed beyond 2018 at this point.

[zambonir]

Yup, not a given, but whoever gets him will be running captive recruitment. Even if he refuses to sign an extension at the time of the trade, should his new team make a playoff run of some kind, that's gonna be hard to beat if he likes it on his new team (and the Phillies are struggling to win 80 games). Especially if his wife is looking at houses too.

There is also Harper, of course. There's no doubt the Phillies want one of those two guys, and have been setting it up to take a run at them.

[LoneStarPhan]

Certainly a team trading for any of the big potential free agents gets the inside track in trying to sign him long term, but there is a price to pay for that advantage. What would it take to get a year of Machado, or Harper, or Trout? If any or all reach free agency, that cost is reduced to a lost draft pick if that is even the system that will be in place at that time.

However, I certainly hope the Phillies will be in the thick of what ever happens with one or more of these upcoming potential free agents, and I hope they can land at least one.

[Austinfan]

I doubt the Phillies have a shot at any elite player not named Trout.
That's because when the money gets that large, money doesn't matter - that is, it's too much to spend (even after agent fees and taxes, 60% of $300M is incredible money).
So things like lifestyle (Manhatten or LA v Philly), media attention, family will decide.
And let's be honest, where would you chose to go if you had $180M after taxes?

[allentown]

I totally agree. Today's Phillies, and likely next year's Phillies aren't as good or obviously ready to roar over the top deep into the playoffs in the near future with the addition of one big hitter as the Phillies who signed Jim Thome were. Even with Thome, his choice was not to come to the Phillies, even for a lot more money, until the players' union pushed him to do right by future FA. The memory of this year's and the prior two years' Phillies teams are going to be firmly fixed in the minds of FAs,

[flyers19rw]

According to Todd Z., Eflin has discomfort in his throwing shoulder after last night's game. This season is going from bad to worse with all of these injuries on top of the bad play. I'm ready for it to be over.

[California_Dreamin]

flyers19rw...you know, when I heard the Eflin news, I felt the same way. I am simply ready for this season to end. I was never bothered by the losses, in fact I wanted that #1 pick [only team that will challenge the Phils now is the White Sox.] But it does appear that at the end of this season there will be almost as many [if not more] questions to answer than there was at the beginning of the season and this year was always about getting questions answered.

[zambonir]

Not everybody wants to live in NY or LA. Philly is a pretty fancy city these days too.

But it is a quandary, at least with Machado. The Philllies' best chance to get him, IMO, would be to acquire him in December and get him invested in what they are building (and with Machado and a few other acquisitions they could hit .500). But that would come at a significant cost (starting, presumably, with one of Crawford or Kingery). Let another team get him in July and go to the playoffs, or have to buy him on the open market against Chicago, LA, NY, Boston, whoever, and that's going to be tougher. It's harder to see Harper picking the Phillies over those teams too, unless he wants to stay in the NL East (and/or stick it to the Nats).

It's hard to even remember what the Phillies' starting rotation was supposed to be on Day 1. Hellickson, Nola, Eickhoff, Velasquez, Buchholtz. With Eflin and Thompson taking their time in AAA to recover from injuries. Pivetta and Lively weren't supposed to be here before August. Mark Leiter Jr.? It's amazing Morgan never made a start.

No easy answer but I do wonder if they shouldn't have found another journeyman vet to soak up some of these innings, the yo-yoing of Thompson (who first came up for a brief bullpen stint), Pivetta, Eflin and Lively has really made it a lost season for most of them. Of course they are now equally short on position players, even with Kim, Kelly and Florimon on the 40. Losing both Valentin and Quinn hurt a lot more than expected too, though at the same time, neither of them ever got transferred to the 60.

[teabag259]

Wait. Can anyone explain to me the rationale behind tonight's lineup in which Alfaro is playing first base and Hoskins is in LF?