2017 Season Phillies Discussion (News/Notes, etc.), continued

[andyb]

It is not uncommon for players with superior tools to improve in the majors over their minor league stats which is the hope for Alfaro. Obviously he will never be a great offensive player if he can't improve his knowledge of the strike zone, but if he does the bat speed and raw power could produce 20-30 HR seasons. Whether he is a star just depends on whether he hits .220 or .270.

A player like Altherr compares a little physically to someone like Matt Kemp. Probably a little less power and a little better defense, but Kemp went from an unheralded 6th round pick to a guy that put up an 8 WAR season. It is much rarer for players without decent tools to do that.

Not every young player will work out. The good news is that they don't have to. We have at least advanced to the point where we have young players in almost every position who have a ceiling of being at least average regulars. Many have ceilings higher than that. That is good. Hopefully we'll figure out how to use our money to fill holes when they don't work out.

[California_Dreamin]

AF...I disagree with you on pitching being the problem. I believe that if the Phils have shown one Achillies Heel this year its been the lack of fundamentally sound play, it happens almost daily and has cost them at least 10 games. I blame coaching for that, something I have been saying for awhile now.

In fact, when it was mentioned on this site that I had completely flipped on my assessment of the Phillies than from the past, I need to make it clear...I am high on the players and their skills, not high on the way they are being instructed. Peter Mac is simply NOT the right manager for this team, he just isn't. And Samuel is a terrible 3rd base coach. And the Phils base running has never been the same since the team foolishly let Davy Lopes go, he would have loved to coach these youngsters on the proper way to run the bases.

Bad fundamental play puts tremendous pressure on young hurlers, something that they really don't need. Heck, I always thought one of the reasons that rookies Bob Walk and Marty Bystrom so seamlessly became starters for the eventual World Champion 1980 Phils was because they knew that they had solid, fundamental players to catch the ball, make the right play, run the bases well, and not beat themselves.

I still believe the most ingenious Phillie I ever witnessed [my regret is that I was so young I didn't truly appreciate or grasp it] was Manager Gene Mauch and he believed teams NEVER won a 1 run game but ALWAYS lost it. He said every time his team would lose a 1 run game he would replay it in his head and think of a cutoff missed, a bunt failed, a runner thrown out on the bases, a missed sign. This Phillie team has been terrible in 1 run games this year and almost every game we rued a mistake made.

Yes, they are young, but what better time to teach them properly. And I steadfastly believe that this is not being done from Williamsport up. And I think they need a new manager and a new pitching coach. A Showalter or his ilk would turn this team around in 2 years.

[Philsmania]

Young stars shining in 2nd half for Phillies

Good article, one which shows that this 2017 season may truly be the darkness before the dawn.

Earlier this season, Mackanin was accused of mishandling young players and having them regress on his watch. Perhaps that is not the case. Franco has regressed and 2018 will probably be a crossroads "put up or shut up" season for him here in Philadelphia. If it's shut up, they'll go all out to sign Machado. And, though Mackanin had some dustups with Herrera, they don't seem to have set him back and they were probably just a byproduct of Odubel being Odubel, something we'll have to get used to on occasion. And, as I just stated a few minutes ago in another comment, Rupp and Joseph probably are what they are (and CD, perhaps that is why the Philllies didn't/couldn't hit the trade jackpot on Rupp last year, just like they couldn't on J.Gomez--other teams knew they just weren't that good). But otherwise, it looks young players are doing quite well. I still don't think Mackanin will be the long-term manager and, yes, I very much want a new pitching coach and third base coach, but I don't think Mackanin is "doing damage" to the rebuild, as some here have suggested. The only managerial move which makes sense, from my standpoint, is replacing Mackanin with Wathan who has grown with these guys in the minors and would grow with them at the ML level, similar to what the Mets did with Davey Johnson and their core of players who came up in the '80s.

[Austinfan]

Team full of young inexperienced players makes fundamental mistakes and is very inconsistent.

And you were expecting ????

Growing pains are just that, right now we're in the "sink or swim" mode with players cycling through the lineup and starting rotation.
We'll probably see this next year as well, but gradually, like we've seen with Altherr, some players emerge and take spots, and start to solidfy the lineup and rotation.

[California_Dreamin]

I would be fine with Wathan, who undoubtedly would want his own pitching coach. By the way, I always hear wonderful things about pitching coach, Ray Burris. Why is he never considered for a major league job.

I understand the philosophy that he does a great job of preparing the minor league hurlers but what good is that if McClure just goof them up once they get there.

And he does.

[California_Dreamin]

AF..it is a falsehood that young players play bad fundamental baseball. Simply false. Kingery and Crawford are very young yet play great fundamental ball. Because they have been coached well.

I can name 10 teams that were young yet played solid fundamental baseball. And I do not think Galvis is that young yet he is one of the worst offenders in the way he runs the bases.

[Austinfan]

Let's see Crawford in the majors, he's already made 17 errors in 108 games, which is usually a sign of lack of focus in a young, talented player
Galvis had 17 errors in 2015, 8 last year and 6 so far this year.
So rookie Crawford is probably not going to be the polished SS he may become in 2020.

[California_Dreamin]

Errors are physical mistakes, I am not talking physical, I am talking mental mistakes. Ironically, I just read an article about Therrian, the Canadian who credits fellow Canadian Eric Gagne with his success.

And what did he teach him? A better curveball? An off the table dropping slider? Nope. Gage taught Therrian that it was the mental part of the game, conquering the mental game that makes a player special.

Every major leaguer has physical talent. The best are the ones who mentally elevate their games. And good fundamentals is very much a part of it.

[andyb]

So Galvis makes 17 errors at age 25 and has more focus than Crawford making 17 errors at age 22? Sometimes you just don't like a player and your points make little sense.

They are both good defensive players. Crawford probably has more range, Galvis better hands. And like all young players Crawford should cut the number of errors as he matures. But if he gets to 40 balls that Galvis does not get to, I'll take a few extra errors any day of the week.

[harrisburghusker]

I'm going to surmise that it's probably a little easier to play SS in the bigs than the minors. Better lighting, better infields and a better 1B to save you from some errors. Crawford has superior on base skills to Freddy and about the same amount of power.

Larry Bowa is also an excellent coach for Crawford to learn about how to be a big league SS.

My hope is that the org's talking points with respect to Galvis are designed to maximize his trade value this off-season

[Austinfan]

My point is simply that Crawford is not going to arrive next year as a finished product.
Kingery played college, and college players tend to be a year to two years older when they arrive, more mature and amenable to coaching.
But any team with lots of young players is going to be error prone and inconsistent.
Over time, they improve or you replace them.

For good fielders, most errors are mental mistakes, failing to properly position yourself or bad footwork on throws, things that players correct over time as they learn to focus.

[bigegypt0417]

My point is simply that Crawford is not going to arrive next year as a finished product.
Kingery played college, and college players tend to be a year to two years older when they arrive, more mature and amenable to coaching.

You really do live in the world of stereotypes.

[Lawman]

Guess it's not really Phillies, per se, but I found this a great read:

'Skunk in the outfield': How the most epic trick play in history broke baseball

[zambonir]

By the way, I always hear wonderful things about pitching coach, Ray Burris. Why is he never considered for a major league job.

It's a good question and one assumes he wouldn't turn the opportunity down but at 66 he may also be perfectly happy with his current job (live in Florida, no road trips, shorter hours).

[zambonir]

Pedro Florimon is your extra Phillies position player, taking Pivetta's spot. Beato DFA'ed to make room on the 40.

[David_Criss]

Beato really isn't a huge loss. With the bullpen issues, I would have thought they'd move Valentin to the 60-day, so Beato could be recalled in September. Wonder if we see Beato as a NRI next year?

[bkox]

Young Phillies back to basics with unusual mandatory workout

[zambonir]

I doubt Florimon's staying on the 40 (he probably doesn't have options left anyway). I'm sure they will figure out how to add a few arms come September. The big question is probably Crawford, simply because the roster is so tight.

[bkox]

Jorge Alfaro to share time with Cameron Rupp

[Lawman]

How MLB got Williamsport, Pa., ready for big leaguers

That's cool, and the Crosscutters get a new field out of it to boot.