2016 Postseason Discussion

[Austinfan]

It also has to be a deep bullpen these days, one bad link and you never get to use that unhittable closer.

[zambonir]

I often say that one thing that the '93 World Series taught me is that when you get to October, the team with the best bullpen that makes it there is often the team that wins it all. Ward and Timlin at the back end of the Blue Jays bullpen got it done while Williams, Andersen and West at the back end of the Phillies bullpen did not. Therein lay the difference in the '93 WS. Few realize that the '93 Phillies were only three outs short of a World Championship. If only that final out of the top of the 8th inning in Game 4 came four batters sooner and the last two outs of the 9th inning of Game 6 came at all. Look at the Yankees with Rivera and Nelson. Heck, look at the '08 Phillies with the Romero-Madson-Lidge back end and a good supporting cast of Eyre, Durbin & Condrey. A great bullpen won't get you to October but it can get you a ring if you make there.

The playoffs are definitely when the narrow margins of a good vs. great bullpen can pay off, but so does luck and bad/good timing. For hitters too. Like, Broxton wasn't a bad reliever, but the Phillies got to him (and maybe got in his head for 2009). Had things gone a little differently Chapman could have been Broxton this week.

I also always remember that Madson blew two leads (technically blown saves statistically) in two World Series games, but the Phillies regained the lead and won both of them.

[Philsmania]

I often say that one thing that the '93 World Series taught me is that when you get to October, the team with the best bullpen that makes it there is often the team that wins it all. Ward and Timlin at the back end of the Blue Jays bullpen got it done while Williams, Andersen and West at the back end of the Phillies bullpen did not. Therein lay the difference in the '93 WS. Few realize that the '93 Phillies were only three outs short of a World Championship. If only that final out of the top of the 8th inning in Game 4 came four batters sooner and the last two outs of the 9th inning of Game 6 came at all. Look at the Yankees with Rivera and Nelson. Heck, look at the '08 Phillies with the Romero-Madson-Lidge back end and a good supporting cast of Eyre, Durbin & Condrey. A great bullpen won't get you to October but it can get you a ring if you make there.

The playoffs are definitely when the narrow margins of a good vs. great bullpen can pay off, but so does luck and bad/good timing. For hitters too. Like, Broxton wasn't a bad reliever, but the Phillies got to him (and maybe got in his head for 2009). Had things gone a little differently Chapman could have been Broxton this week.

I also always remember that Madson blew two leads (technically blown saves statistically) in two World Series games, but the Phillies regained the lead and won both of them.

True. Also, matchups matter as well. I often think of how fortune smiled on the 2008 Phillies when the three consensus best teams in baseball that season--the Cubs, Red Sox and Angels--were all knocked out before the Phillies had to play them. And conversely, the Dodgers and the Rays matched up well for the Phillies. On the flipside, the Giants were a terrible matchup for us in 2010 as were the Cardinals in 2011, some say.

[EastFallowfield]

Why were the Rays deemed to be worse than the Sox who they beat over 162 games and in the ALCS?

[zambonir]

Ha, yeah that comes up every once in a while. The answer is obviously perception. Laundry. And postseason experience. And payroll. I have no idea at this point if the Phillies might have truly matched up better or worse with them. But I'm guessing the Rays weren't favored in the ALCS (because non-pro bettors susceptible to all those factors mentioned too).

[LoneStarPhan]

Dodgers score 4 in the top of the 7th to go ahead 4-1 only to see Dayton walk the first batter in the bottom of the inning, then a home run to make it 4-3. Just cannot emphasize how important having a couple relievers who can get the job done in the post season really is to a team.

[zambonir]

Roberts makes the right move to use his closer at the high-leverage time but he can't get Harper out. Werth up now needing only a fly ball to tie. Full count, of course.

I still like Werth but I can't pull for the Nats at all.

[BostonRoss]

Roberts makes the right move to use his closer at the high-leverage time but he can't get Harper out. Werth up now needing only a fly ball to tie. Full count, of course.

I still like Werth but I can't pull for the Nats at all.

Jansen whiffs Werth.

For what it's Werth (ha), I like Chase and Chooch better than Werth. I like Home Run Blanton, too.

[LoneStarPhan]

Harper stole second on the Werth K, but after walking Murphy intentionally, Rendon goes down swinging to leave the bases loaded and the Nationals down one run, 4-3, after 7 innings.

[zambonir]

Roberts makes the right move to use his closer at the high-leverage time but he can't get Harper out. Werth up now needing only a fly ball to tie. Full count, of course.

I still like Werth but I can't pull for the Nats at all.

Jansen whiffs Werth.

For what it's Werth (ha), I like Chase and Chooch better than Werth. I like Home Run Blanton, too.

Blanton's home run is still my favorite in person memory of '08 (and he pitched lights-out that night too). And yeah, of course Chase and Chooch are more sentimental, and lifelong Phillies. Dodgers all the way for me. But man, even with his salary and his ups and downs, Werth is still everything the Phillies line-up didn't have the past five years (well, that and Howard).

[LoneStarPhan]

Bottom of the ninth, Jansen Ks Turner but walks Harper on 4 pitches. His PC higher than he has ever had as a closer at 45. One on, one out, down a run.

Jansen clearly losing his location. Facing Werth. Trouble coming?

...and he walks Werth. Now bringing in Kershaw who has been warming up since the top of the inning.

Why not let Kershaw start the inning? I guess he hoped Jansen could do it but it now he brings in a pitcher with two on and only one out. Murphy the batter. Jansen threw 51 pitches tonight.

I think they just said Kershaw's last relief outing was against the Phillies in the post season.

[LoneStarPhan]

Murphy pops up, F4. Infield fly rule out.

Nationals had inserted their last pitcher in the 5 slot so use pinch hitter, Wilmer Difo. Runners first and second, two out. Difo: ball, strike swinging, strike swinging, foul, strike swinging, out 2-3.

Dodgers win, 4-3. Save for Kershaw. Dodgers win 3 by one run to advance. Kershaw started or saved each victory.

[BostonRoss]

That was worth staying up for.

[LoneStarPhan]

That was worth staying up for.

Yes it was, but of course, I didn't have to stay up quite as late.

Warms my heart to see the Nationals and the Mets eliminated already in the post season.

[BostonRoss]

Warms my heart to see the Nationals and the Mets eliminated already in the post season.

[zambonir]

Not even 10pm here.

Gotta love the Chooch/Kershaw hug, bittersweet for us and for AJ Ellis tho.

[donaldorc]

That was worth staying up for.

That was worth getting up for. Woke up right during the Dodger rally in the seventh.

[EastFallowfield]

Ha, yeah that comes up every once in a while. The answer is obviously perception. Laundry. And postseason experience. And payroll. I have no idea at this point if the Phillies might have truly matched up better or worse with them. But I'm guessing the Rays weren't favored in the ALCS (because non-pro bettors susceptible to all those factors mentioned too).

There seems to be a certain pct of Phils fanbase that needs for some reason to turn the 2008 Sox into an unbeatable foe for us even though they didn't make it out of the AL. It's weird to make the wild card team into that, especially after the mystique and aura couldn't get them past lowly Tampa.

[zambonir]

Ha, yeah that comes up every once in a while. The answer is obviously perception. Laundry. And postseason experience. And payroll. I have no idea at this point if the Phillies might have truly matched up better or worse with them. But I'm guessing the Rays weren't favored in the ALCS (because non-pro bettors susceptible to all those factors mentioned too).

There seems to be a certain pct of Phils fanbase that needs for some reason to turn the 2008 Sox into an unbeatable foe for us even though they didn't make it out of the AL. It's weird to make the wild card team into that, especially after the mystique and aura couldn't get them past lowly Tampa.

I think it is pretty easy to understand. Sox were defending champions full of stars, Rays were historically a joke, with people just discovering Maddon and their excellent but largely unknown players. And they didn't run away with the division ( Sox had better Pythagorean). That the '09 team couldn't get past the high dollar, all aura Yankees, and that the Rays never got back to another WS, only adds to the vibe.

it matters not, as tonight showed, winning in the playoffs is solely about winning in the playoffs, whatever the depth skill or talent that got you there, it gets used in totally different ways in October.

[bkeich]

My least favorite team is the Nationals. I don't like the franchise, I don't like the city (in fact we would be better off without it ) and some of the players are just annoying (Harper, etc.).

It was wonderful to watch Utley and Chooch (and Blanton to a lesser degree) be key parts of putting them away.

So, how many of us thought that Joe Blanton would be an important part of a team in the playoffs in 2016 during the 2008 season? I think Utley and Ruiz being contributors in their later years is not a surprise, but you could have made a mint betting that Blanton would have re-invented himself and contributing.