The Unending Sixers Thread

[Joe_Cowley]

I would like the the Sixers trade either Okafor or Noel for a PG or SG. You could always use a later pick to draft a backup Center. Even if Embiid never gets on the court, you would have Okafor or Noel plus a late 1st round pick at Center, and Simmons/Saric/Holmes/Landry/Covington/Grant at PF and SF. If you acquired a PG (Jeff Teague?) in the Okafor/Noel deal, all you would really need is help at SG. You could probably go one more year with Stauskas/Thompson (and maybe the other late 1st round pick) then hope to find more back court help in the next draft.

[bigegypt0417]

Just thrilled about tonight's outcome.
I would absolutely move Okafor in a deal for a guard like Russell or a pick in the 3-5 range.
This team is going to be loaded if Embiid can play. Even if he can't they are going to be really good.
Like that the Lakers pick rolled to next year. We still have the pick swap with the Kings next year and their unprotected first in 2018 I think.

Agree with you 100%

At this point if saric is coming over Okafor becomes a valuable piece for them. Maybe if you are working with the lakers you trade okafor and ask for the top 3 protection to be removed...should be fun to see how it plays out.

[Squire]

Just thrilled about tonight's outcome.
I would absolutely move Okafor in a deal for a guard like Russell or a pick in the 3-5 range.
This team is going to be loaded if Embiid can play. Even if he can't they are going to be really good.
Like that the Lakers pick rolled to next year. We still have the pick swap with the Kings next year and their unprotected first in 2018 I think.

Agree with you 100%

At this point if saric is coming over Okafor becomes a valuable piece for them. Maybe if you are working with the lakers you trade okafor and ask for the top 3 protection to be removed...should be fun to see how it plays out.

That was exactly the idea I had. Okafor for Russell and the removal of Top 3 protection from next years pick. I think that makes sense for both teams.

[bigegypt0417]

Just thrilled about tonight's outcome.
I would absolutely move Okafor in a deal for a guard like Russell or a pick in the 3-5 range.
This team is going to be loaded if Embiid can play. Even if he can't they are going to be really good.
Like that the Lakers pick rolled to next year. We still have the pick swap with the Kings next year and their unprotected first in 2018 I think.

Agree with you 100%

At this point if saric is coming over Okafor becomes a valuable piece for them. Maybe if you are working with the lakers you trade okafor and ask for the top 3 protection to be removed...should be fun to see how it plays out.

That was exactly the idea I had. Okafor for Russell and the removal of Top 3 protection from next years pick. I think that makes sense for both teams.

the player in this draft I really like is Kris Dunn but he isn't the top pick. I wonder if you trade down a little bit and pick up a pick in the better draft next year...

[Lawman]

Just thrilled about tonight's outcome.
I would absolutely move Okafor in a deal for a guard like Russell or a pick in the 3-5 range.
This team is going to be loaded if Embiid can play. Even if he can't they are going to be really good.
Like that the Lakers pick rolled to next year. We still have the pick swap with the Kings next year and their unprotected first in 2018 I think.

Agree with you 100%

At this point if saric is coming over Okafor becomes a valuable piece for them. Maybe if you are working with the lakers you trade okafor and ask for the top 3 protection to be removed...should be fun to see how it plays out.

That was exactly the idea I had. Okafor for Russell and the removal of Top 3 protection from next years pick. I think that makes sense for both teams.

the player in this draft I really like is Kris Dunn but he isn't the top pick. I wonder if you trade down a little bit and pick up a pick in the better draft next year...

I disagree with trading down now and with trading Okafor for LAL to unprotect their pick next year.

I think the Sixers need to figure out if Saric is coming over for next year, as that decision will impact which of Simmons or Ingram they pick. That's step #1. Everything else hinges on that and how they feel about trusting Embiid's foot to be the big man going forward.

I think they want to get away from the unknown that is the lottery/ping-pong balls to determine their fate. If they trade down now, no guarantee they will be in position to draft Dunn next year. Can't pass up on Simmons/Ingram now for a "what-if" scenario next year.

[bigegypt0417]

Just thrilled about tonight's outcome.
I would absolutely move Okafor in a deal for a guard like Russell or a pick in the 3-5 range.
This team is going to be loaded if Embiid can play. Even if he can't they are going to be really good.
Like that the Lakers pick rolled to next year. We still have the pick swap with the Kings next year and their unprotected first in 2018 I think.

Agree with you 100%

At this point if saric is coming over Okafor becomes a valuable piece for them. Maybe if you are working with the lakers you trade okafor and ask for the top 3 protection to be removed...should be fun to see how it plays out.

That was exactly the idea I had. Okafor for Russell and the removal of Top 3 protection from next years pick. I think that makes sense for both teams.

the player in this draft I really like is Kris Dunn but he isn't the top pick. I wonder if you trade down a little bit and pick up a pick in the better draft next year...

I disagree with trading down now and with trading Okafor for LAL to unprotect their pick next year.

I think the Sixers need to figure out if Saric is coming over for next year, as that decision will impact which of Simmons or Ingram they pick. That's step #1. Everything else hinges on that and how they feel about trusting Embiid's foot to be the big man going forward.

I think they want to get away from the unknown that is the lottery/ping-pong balls to determine their fate. **If they trade down now, no guarantee they will be in position to draft Dunn next year. **Can't pass up on Simmons/Ingram now for a "what-if" scenario next year.

Dunn is available in this draft.

[Dell]

We're talking about fit right now in part because we balked at Porzingis because he didn't want to work out for us. I'm not making that mistake again. Don't overthink anything, you pick Simmons and then start thinking about which guards are available at 24/26 where you're likely looking at a group of options that includes Patrick McCaw, Caris LeVert, Cat Barber, Malcolm Brogdon and hopefully one of Malik Beasley / Malachi Richardson / Dejounte Murray. Pick the best one you can find and go international (Guerschon Yabusele, Ante Zizic, Zhou Qi, Juan Hernangomez, Petr Cornelie, Rade Zagorac, Isaia Cordinier) with the other (or trade it for a future first).

Throw money at Bradley Beal, Allen Crabbe, Fournier, Bazemore, Clarkson, Courtney Lee, maybe Batum and hope you get one of them to play shooting guard but figure we miss on the top guys.

Point guard is harder. Ish doesn't fit with Simmons, you need a shooter. Clarkson could fit here too I guess, or people like Matthew Dellavedova (interestingly, another Australian. This might not be the worst idea). I would go hard after Seth Curry to back him up as well.

Let's assume we're still a year away from attracting big free agents. So don't swing for the fences, look to sign guys who fit what we want to do and hit doubles with this signings.

So let's say we can sign Courtney Lee (39% from 3), Curry (45% from 3) and Delly (41% from 3). All are good 3-point shooters and excellent defenders who don't need the ball. We would go into next season with:

PG: Matthew Dellavedova / Seth Curry / TJ McConnell / Kendell Marshall
SG: Courtney Lee / Nik Stauskas / Guard picked at 24 or 26
SF: Ben Simmons / Robert Covington / Hollis Thompson
PF: Jahlil Okafor / Dario Saric / Jeremi Grant / Carl Landry
C: Nerlens Noel / Joel Embiid / Richan Holmes

Obviously, that's 17 guys, so someone people (Marshall is one) would have to be cut/traded, but that looks like a real NBA basketball team.

Once Embiid proves to be healthy, we can start to look for deals for Noel.

The team would also have our own first rounder, LA's first rounder and the Kings swap option in a strong 2017 draft.

Plus around 42-45M to spend in free agency next off-season.

[Lawman]

Dunn is available in this draft.

You're right, my error.

[Austinfan]

A lot of unknows:
1) Simmons v Ingram, there are some serious character questions about Simmons, and if he can't guard a "3", Jah is the better bet at PF (longer, stronger, better shooter).
2) Embiid's health - can he hold up for 80 games?
3) who fits - Noel can only play center on offense, zero range, how good of a PF can Jah become (his shot steadily improved, if he develop range out to 20+, and gets down to 250 lbs, he might be the best PF in the NBA in two years)? Saric, is he a true stretch 4? Holmes, does he have enough upside to allow someone to be traded and play a major role
4) free agency, who comes available, who's worth the money, who's a good fit, who will want to come here and wait two years for the team to develop

I hope they take a cautious approach, they have enough talent and assets (Lakers 2017, doubt they'll finish in the top 3, and their own pick, two top ten picks), Sacramento unprotected in 2019. So it's more about shuffling pieces without sacrificing value (i.e., no overpay for aging veterans for a short-term fix).

[bigegypt0417]

A lot of unknows:
1) Simmons v Ingram, there are some serious character questions about Simmons, and if he can't guard a "3", Jah is the better bet at PF (longer, stronger, better shooter).
2) Embiid's health - can he hold up for 80 games?
3) who fits - Noel can only play center on offense, zero range, how good of a PF can Jah become (his shot steadily improved, if he develop range out to 20+, and gets down to 250 lbs, he might be the best PF in the NBA in two years)? Saric, is he a true stretch 4? Holmes, does he have enough upside to allow someone to be traded and play a major role
4) free agency, who comes available, who's worth the money, who's a good fit, who will want to come here and wait two years for the team to develop

I hope they take a cautious approach, they have enough talent and assets (Lakers 2017, doubt they'll finish in the top 3, and their own pick, two top ten picks), Sacramento unprotected in 2019. So it's more about shuffling pieces without sacrificing value (i.e., no overpay for aging veterans for a short-term fix).

Is you suggestion we build the team over another 3 years? At some point this team needs to bring in veterans and hopefully they pick the right ones but I cant see the fan base being Ok with kicking the can down the road much longer. I'm not saying that is what you mean but they have been cautious for the last 3 season hoping to land a star in the draft. If embiid is healthy, they may have done that.

a big [size=150]IF[/size]

Okafor is the best and probably most expendable asset. Noel and his defense is required for playoff teams.

[Austinfan]

They weren't cautious, you can't sign good free agents in the NBA if you're a bad team, see Sacramento.
And you don't want to trade serious assets for older veterans, see Brooklyn, or for "damaged goods," see Bynum.

They simply haven't had enough assets to trade up to this point.
They don't have to trade Jah, Noel, or the Laker draft pick to make trades.
You could package, #26, Holmes and Grant and get a pretty solid starter, not an allstar, but a guard who could buy you a few years to draft a top guard or two.
All you need is a team with a surplus at guard that wants to build up low cost forward depth.
Heck, even guys like Canaan and Thompson have value to a team that wants a sharpshooter to bring off the bench in certain situations.
Look at Sampson, we waived him, he started in Denver.

[bigegypt0417]

They weren't cautious, you can't sign good free agents in the NBA if you're a bad team, see Sacramento.
And you don't want to trade serious assets for older veterans, see Brooklyn, or for "damaged goods," see Bynum.

They simply haven't had enough assets to trade up to this point.
They don't have to trade Jah, Noel, or the Laker draft pick to make trades.
You could package, #26, Holmes and Grant and get a pretty solid starter, not an allstar, but a guard who could buy you a few years to draft a top guard or two.
All you need is a team with a surplus at guard that wants to build up low cost forward depth.
Heck, even guys like Canaan and Thompson have value to a team that wants a sharpshooter to bring off the bench in certain situations.
Look at Sampson, we waived him, he started in Denver.

The bolded seems like a move to get rid of a guy, grant, who has shown enough value to not be used for could buy you a few years.

Your plan seems to me to keep building even though if you are smart about it, you have the assets to do it now and part of that is a lot of available money. Free agency is no longer owned by the big money team or the large markets.

[bigegypt0417]

The more I read the more comfortable I am getting with Ben Simmons. I think it makes me feel a little better that Brett Brown has known the family for over a decade and is familiar with simmons. I hate when people say things like Magic and Lebron but it's at least an interesting skillset.

[Austinfan]

Of course this team is rebuilding, just look at Minnesota or Milwaukee, you don't turn the ship around overnight.
It takes three years in the NBA for players to hit their peak, so Embiid and Simmons won't be championship caliber players for a couple more years.
And they need to shuffle assets to patch holes.

Grant is a fine defensive player, but where does he play? He's really not quick enough to guard top SFs, he's a bit stiff, and his offensive skills are limited. Not that I'm advocating getting rid of him, but if that's the price to pick up a guard or a true winger, I wouldn't hesitate to include him in a package.

RoCo on the other hand may develop into the classic "D and 3" player, average athlete with good size and strength and very quick hands, and he's a proven sniper. Good fit with the players they're bringing in.

It's very hard to sign free agents in the NBA, few leave their teams and the top ones go to winners because the money is pretty much the same. You can overpay the second and third tier guys, but then you've bought an overpaid mercenary, probably not the best way to build a championship team. blow your salary cap on guys who'll be riding the bench when you're good enough to compete.

The best strategy is to target young players who are blocked for players you have who are a better fit and maybe draft pick assets. You get a player to fill a need who's highly motivated to win a starting job, they get players to fill out their bench.

[allentown]

Of course this team is rebuilding, just look at Minnesota or Milwaukee, you don't turn the ship around overnight.
It takes three years in the NBA for players to hit their peak, so Embiid and Simmons won't be championship caliber players for a couple more years.
And they need to shuffle assets to patch holes.

Grant is a fine defensive player, but where does he play? He's really not quick enough to guard top SFs, he's a bit stiff, and his offensive skills are limited. Not that I'm advocating getting rid of him, but if that's the price to pick up a guard or a true winger, I wouldn't hesitate to include him in a package.

RoCo on the other hand may develop into the classic "D and 3" player, average athlete with good size and strength and very quick hands, and he's a proven sniper. Good fit with the players they're bringing in.

It's very hard to sign free agents in the NBA, few leave their teams and the top ones go to winners because the money is pretty much the same. You can overpay the second and third tier guys, but then you've bought an overpaid mercenary, probably not the best way to build a championship team. blow your salary cap on guys who'll be riding the bench when you're good enough to compete.

The best strategy is to target young players who are blocked for players you have who are a better fit and maybe draft pick assets. You get a player to fill a need who's highly motivated to win a starting job, they get players to fill out their bench.

I don't at all agree that the Sixers are an unattractive destination for a FA guard. If I'm a good, youngish FA guard, I look at the Sixers' frontcourt and see the addition of myself turning the team into a legit championship contender, and a lot quicker than 3 years from now. The 1.1, really with either guy, a healthy Embiid, and Saric joining the team and the Sixers have an absolutely killer frontcourt rotation. This is the ideal opportunity for a FA guard to make his reputation for leading the young Sixers team to greatness. The Sixers have two late first round draft picks and a ton of cap space. They'll get their guard.

[Nobody]

Thanks Sam Hinkie.

No matter what anybody thought of you or your plan to tank for lottery picks, you have given the Sixers the best chance to acquire a collection of young talent since the mid-1980's (before Harold Katz completely blew it).

[bigegypt0417]

So the Celtics want to trade out of the 3rd pick in the draft. If you're the Sixers do you swap Okafor for that pick and draft Kris Dunn?

[Austinfan]

I want a lot more than the #3 pick in this draft, Jah >> Dunn or anyone else available at that point in the draft.

3 plus the option to take the higher of our pick and Brooklyn's #1 next year and throw in a couple 2nd rd picks.

And maybe one of their guards.

[bigegypt0417]

I want a lot more than the #3 pick in this draft, Jah >> Dunn or anyone else available at that point in the draft.

#3 plus the option to take the higher of our pick and Brooklyn's #1 next year and throw in a couple 2nd rd picks.
And maybe one of their guards.

No. it really isn't worth that much. Okafor for the 3 and possibly another pick or swap may work. the sixers in Kris dunn would have the PG they need for the next 5 or so years. You really cant compare Okafor and Dunn as players since they serve different roles...

[phillychuck]

Celtics are talking about Avery Bradley + the third pick for Okafor, which seems about right.

While you can't compare Okafor and Dunn directly, you can compare their values and their likelihood of NBA success. Okafor has already proven he's not a bust, and his shooting got markedly better in his rookie season, especially from the foul line. Dunn still has bust potential, and has not shown that he'll work hard enough as a pro to get better. IMHO Okafor is worth lots more than Dunn.

And it's already pretty clear that Ainge is really interested in Okafor.