The New New Unending Flyers thread

[Squire]

Apologies if my other response comes across as angry. I just don't see a cohesive Flyers strategy at all. I hope some of these draft picks pan out. But I was also really excited about Farabee and Frost and Laberge and Allison and Ratcliffe, etc. I was told that the Flyers knew what they were doing when they took Jay O'Brien. When they took Cam York instead of Cole Caulfield, etc. So I absolutely do NOT trust them on Nesbitt.

[zambonir]

It's been a lot of different "thems." But it's totally reasonable to feel like nothing has really changed, until proven otherwise.

[Docs]

the one thing I believe most reports said about Nesbitt is if he develops to be an NHL 2C then he's the kind every team needs. A good compliment to a 1C.

How many RFA centers are/were out there available for two firsts? Especially if Zegras was a second. I think that’s how i look at this value, could the Flyers have used those two draft picks to get a more sure thing at center? We debated sending one of them for Rossi. I don’t think i would argue with anyone who would have preferred getting a more established prospect with those picks if the Nesbitt upside is 2C but not a sure thing.

[zambonir]

Flyers winger Tyson Foerster could miss the start of next season with an arm...

[phillychuck]

Paywalled. What does it say?

[zambonir]

Not much more than what's in the preview. Hurt himself in off-season workouts. Doesn't say what the injury is, just arm/upper-body.

[VoteForKalas]

I just don't see a cohesive Flyers strategy at all

I cannot speak for everyone here, but this has been the problem for so many decades and through so many Flyer leadership groups that it has colored my reaction to any move made as well.

I do not see a cohesive strategy with the Briere - Jones - Hilferty (and now Tocchet) group either, but, for the first time in a long time, I do see some signs of movement in that direction.

I like the more patient and methodical process they took in turning older vets into draft assets or younger players, including Laughton & Walker. Hopefully, they will do the same with Risto.

I like the shorter term, lower risk extensions for players like Cates, Foerster, Hathaway, Seeler and hopefully York soon.

I like that they are willing to roll the dice on depressed value but high pick players like Poehling & now Zegras.

I like how they have faced up to past mistakes and taken action, swapping Gauthier for Drysdale or working around the bad contracts to Hayes, Ellis and currently Risto as best they can.

I also like how the development curve seems to be turning around - remember the days when all of our young talent never progressed, but instead stalled out? I think we are doing better at developing talent now. Some of that credit goes to Torts too, but I think it will continue to be a big emphasis under Tocchet.

These seem like small things, but they demonstrate some competence IMO which is a big step up from the likes of Holmgren, Fletcher and even Hextall who tried to do some of this, but was unable to and was not supported internally. I hope they can sustain and build on it even more because going from bad to good is doable, but going from good to great is even harder. The league is super competitive and other organizations are far ahead of us.

[Austinfan]

There's definitely a coherent strategy for the first time in decades.
This season Briere is dealing with an organizational "hole," he has guys on the verge of the NHL, Martone, Jett, plus all the LHV players like Bonk, Bump, Grebenkin, Barkey, etc.
But none are sure things this October.
So he picks up Dvorak on a one year deal.

Zavragin comes over in 2027, Bjarnason gets two years in LHV to marinate, Ersson gets a shot at showing he can grow into the job, Vladar is a two year patch until someone better is ready or picked up.
Pederson and the two D-men are AHL plus players to fill out the LHV roster and provide emergency callups.
Marody, Belpedio and Gleason are UFAs.

Briere started by dumping the dead wood, Hayes, TDA, etc.
Then he got rid of players who weren't good fits, Frost, Farabee.
Now he's building a core of a team. Zegras gets a one year tryout to see if he's a good fit as a top six forward.

They'll be some misses, but Zegras is the only major asset used in a trade, and that was for a 24 year old with upside.
Otherwise he collects draft picks and prospects.
No panic moves, no "win now" we got to make the POs moves. No long term deals for older veterans.

Briere has been remarkably consistent in his approach.

[zambonir]

I feel like the plan has been pretty clear since Jones and Briere took over. Including a five-year timeline. I may not agree with everything about it, and also, circumstances change. I don't think any of them knew Gauthier wasn't going to sign, or that Hart's Flyers career was going to be over, or that Michkov was going to be here already. They may or may not have imagined Torts' tenure winding down more smoothly. If they had been committed to tanking from the get-go they probably wouldn't have kept him, but they wanted to have it both ways, and I think he still left the franchise better than he found it. They also probably didn't expect Fedotov to be quite so bad, or for Kolosov to give them trouble.

As for right now, this seems like the ultimate have-it-both-ways transitional year. They got Zegras but don't have to re-sign him if he doesn't look like a seven-year deal type keeper. The other commitments are relatively modest or short.

[Austinfan]

They have a coherent plan, something the Flyers have lacked for a long-time.
Now whether they can implement it remains to be seen.
But no more rebuild - no, we made the playoffs, stop the rebuild, no we missed the playoffs, go young, no . . .

If I to give a general outline:
1) want a physical, competitive team, a hybrid of CAR/FLA, pressure forecheck, back check, in your face
2) size isn't a fetish but part of balance, big at center, mix at wing, balanced pairs on defense
3) long odds against landing a "unicorn" franchise player, so build talent depth and hope to both get lucky with players exceeding expectations and wearing down opponents by coming in waves

Briere obviously isn't against small players, but he knows what it takes to win, doesn't want small perimeter players, also doesn't want big finesse players who play a small game. TK fits the mold of a small "Flyer" player. But he'll balance skill with snarl, a highly skilled small player can be balanced with big physical linemates who do the dirty work. Same on defense, they try to balance Drysdale as a rover with a big stay at home partner.

[VoteForKalas]

I feel like the plan has been pretty clear since Jones and Briere took over. Including a five-year timeline

I think the plan "to become competitive" has been repeatedly stated, but how that is defined and whether the plan is aligned with any strategic or specific goals is an open question.

They have been reticent to provide details and time tables of how a team "becomes competitive" in today's NHL and, in particular, how the Flyers do so with their history of being probably the most backward thinking and least innovative organizations in the league.

I understand why they've kept their powder dry to this juncture, but it does make it a lot harder for the fanbase to have confidence and trust when presented with the opaque picture of the organization's path back to "competitiveness" as if that is enough to satisfy people who have waited since 1975 to raise a Cup.

I think, correct me if I'm wrong, that is what Squire is pointing out. I think they are sincerely trying to be smarter and make it work, but they need to show me a lot more for me to get to "cohesive strategy" territory.

[phillychuck]

Today’s signings were, at best, a disappointment. Probably not a disaster, but I would have preferred signing no one to the guys they picked up. Especially Dvorak, but he’s probably a Tocchet “promise”. Rotate through the young guys, and spend your money on the Russian dude.

[Austinfan]

Outside of a general sense of what you want, no one can provide a concrete plan for building a sports team.

I mean Phillies have invested a lot of resources into scouting and player development, but what's their plan? Obviously it's more a problem of execution than intent.

Same way Briere has given a general sense of the kind of team he wants by his HCs (Torts, then Tocchet) and personnel decisions.
But he can't control which opportunities present themselves, he can only be prepared to take advantage of them.
However, when you look at the decisions as a whole, the intent to get younger, accumulate assets and focus on a certain style of play is obvious.

[bigegypt0417]

I'm not really sure i can call the signings a disappointment...personally.

The goalie could make us at least a little better. I think the players signed are just holding spots until the younger guys are ready.

The moves today at least indicate they want to take a step forward.

[Austinfan]

They can't spend their money on Shabanov, he has to sign an ELC. So he'll decide on preference, not money.
They only spent on two players, Dvorak, for a team with only 9 proven NHL forwards, and Vladar b/c he's the best of a bad group of goalies and only needed a 2 year deal (Allen signed for 5).
The three other signings replaced three AHL veterans, Marody, Belpedio and Gleason.

[Squire]

See this is where I am. The goalie signing is fine. Whatever. But the 4 skaters they signed I would have rather given Pelletier a QO and played some of the guys they have at Lehigh Valley. I could have been excited about Shabanov.

[zambonir]

I guess I just didn't put much stock or thought into the Shabanov thing. What was that really based on, connection to Michkov? Their success with the goalies? (Ha.) Briere seemed to downplay or even deny the idea that they were the frontrunner once the story moved out of the blogs.

Dvorak seems like a fine pick-up to me. It's money they weren't going to spend on anyone else, and the Tocchet history aside it also seems not unrelated to the Foerster news, in terms of some of the positional moving around they might have to do. According to San Fillippo (who I believe started the Shabanov rumor) that's actually why they were in on Perry.

Seems to me the team is probably a lot better than it was last year between Zegras, better goaltending, and, we hope, better coaching and PP. And they will still be in a position to add a major FA (even if they also keep Zegras) next year, as well in a position to flip some guys in March if they are closer to the lottery than the playoffs.

I do wonder if they are going to trade Andrae, if they are committed to York and then have Zemula and Juulsen for depth. But with Risto out for while I guess they need them all initially.

[zambonir]

Flyers fear extended absence for Tyson Foerster after offseason injury |...

Also, I was really only reading this for the Foerster news but SF maintains the Flyers are still the favorite to get Shabanov.

[Docs]

Did Tyson hurt himself doing the MMA training with the team?

[zambonir]

At the Worlds apparently. But now it's a serious infection.