Rule 5 Draft Considerations - Winter Roster Additions

Squire 2016-12-03 14:59:00 UTC #101

There was an article the other day (either Phillyvoice or CSN) which seemed to indicate that there was some buzz that OF Andrew Pullin could get picked by someone in the Rule 5 draft.

julio 2016-12-03 21:35:45 UTC #102

Minor Rule 5 rule change wrinkle:

LoneStarPhan 2016-12-03 21:55:34 UTC #103

Still insignificant so rule 5 picks continue to not be constrained in any way by the money.

I'd think the $100K today is less significant than the $50K was when that amount was set as the rule 5 draft price.

Two rule 5 questions for the coming week:

1, Will the Phillies lose player(s) in the draft? I'd guess that they will.

Will the Phillies make room on the 40 man roster and draft a player? I'm guessing not.

Slinging_Southpaw 2016-12-03 22:52:30 UTC #104

With 4 pretty insignificant relievers still on the 40 man roster, I think they'll clear a spot just in case who they want falls to them

zambonir 2016-12-03 23:18:07 UTC #105

Not, I am assuming, applicable to this year's draft (just as the QO system hasn't changed). Or am I mistaken?

Slinging_Southpaw 2016-12-03 23:50:28 UTC #106

My argument for multiple Rule 5 Picks.
As we stand right now, the team looks like it will fill the bench, the bullpen and play ball. Now, we can bring in a few players that no one else is willing to sign to play a starting position or is will to give a multi-contract too off of the Free Agent List, but then, what have you accomplished? Maybe those players stay healthy and play well enough that someone else is willing to give you a bag of balls at the trade deadline for them..........................or maybe you just cut out the middle-man and take better prospects than you'll probably be offered in trade, in the Rule 5 Draft.
Either way there's a chance of boom or bust, but by going through the Rule 5 Draft you're guaranteed to at least get that player of your choice.
We probably could have gotten a prospect for Peter Bourjos, but inconsistent(poor) play and a badly timed injury took care of that and we got nothing. Even if he didn't get injured, I seriously doubt, we could have gotten a better return, than by just drafting someone.

julio 2016-12-04 00:11:56 UTC #107

No idea.

LoneStarPhan 2016-12-04 00:46:24 UTC #108

Really insignificant. I doubt any team will make different decisions in the rule 5 draft this coming week based on the cost, be it $50K or $100K.

zambonir 2016-12-04 02:48:11 UTC #109

Not this week (or rather, not once the rules take effect in future drafts), but it may lead to a (slight) increase in teams passing up their chance to have a player returned.

It looks like nearly all the changes won't start until next off-season (except the all-star game).

julio 2016-12-06 20:23:09 UTC #110

Meghan Montemurro tweets:

Given that the Phils cannot just clear a roster spot by removing somebody (deadline is past), and they're putting together a draft board "just in case," that says to me that there is at least one potential trade under discussion - something that would clear a roster spot - e.g., trading somebody currently on the 40-man roster, for a return that would NOT go on the 40-man roster. Interesting...

zambonir 2016-12-06 22:11:56 UTC #111

The Phillies moved Mariot off the 40 to make room for Benoit, can't they just dump someone else if they end up making a pick?

julio 2016-12-06 22:29:51 UTC #112

No, they cannot. The published deadline for outrighting players off the 40-man roster prior to the Rule 5 draft was yesterday (December 5th). The deadline for requesting outright waivers (necessary to outright somebody) was four days earlier (because of the weekend) on December 1st.

If it were permissible to just DFA somebody to clear a roster spot, there would be no point in having an outright deadline - it would be meaningless.

They can clear a roster spot by trading somebody - assuming they don't put whoever they get back on the roster (or they trade for a PTBNL). But they can't just remove somebody from the roster without going through the waiver process, and the rules set a deadline for that.

zambonir 2016-12-07 00:39:08 UTC #113

So what is happening to Mariot then?

Slinging_Southpaw 2016-12-07 01:01:33 UTC #114

DFA'd

julio 2016-12-07 02:45:34 UTC #115

They can DFA Mariot in conjunction with a free agent signing (or a trade, if necessary), subject to approval of the Commissioner's Office. They'll request waivers on him after Thursday's draft, and he'll either be claimed or clear waivers then. But they can't DFA somebody to just get the roster under 40 for the Rule 5 draft. If they wanted an open roster spot, they needed to leave a spot open when they filed their winter roster, back on November 20th - or else they need to trade somebody, for low level prospects or a PTBNL (or cash, presumably).

julio 2016-12-07 02:52:07 UTC #116

FYI, Matt Breen writes that the Phillies could DFA somebody to make roster space for the Rule 5 draft (see link below). I think he's wrong - having deadlines for setting the roster, and for outrighting players before the Rule 5 draft, doesn't make much sense if you can just DFA somebody the morning of the draft - but we'll see (maybe - if they actually can, and do, DFA somebody). Anyway, here's the link to his piece:

Ryan Lawrence's writeup is more consistent with my understanding:

The money quote from the above:

“Right now we’re at 40, and unless something changes then yes we’ll sit out,” Klentak said. “But we spent some time this morning as a group preparing for the Rule 5 Draft, lining up our boards, so that if a transaction takes place between now and Thursday then we’re ready to take action.”

zambonir 2016-12-07 06:10:08 UTC #117

I was not caught up on the discussion in the Benoit thread for some reason (wasn't showing up as "unread" for me). I dunno, I think the Klentak quote can be read both ways (i.e. DFA'ing is still "a transaction").

And it kind of makes sense to me (which is why I asked) - DFA'ing a player gives the rest of the league more opportunity to obtain that player (and gives the player more opportunity to be obtained) under less restrictive conditions, which is supposed to be the point of the Rule V draft, generally speaking (under more restrictive conditions). Any team can have Mariot now if they want him. What the Phillies can't do is move Mariot off the 40 and into Rule V eligibility.

Doesn't mean the Phillies will DFA somebody; given how low they are drafting, there would have to be someone they had a strong read on (as was the case with Herrera). But it seems like they can do it.

Lawman 2016-12-07 13:33:12 UTC #118

If they saw someone they liked during the Rule V draft, can they immediately DFA someone on the 40 man and grab the guy they like? How much time does it take to DFA someone?

julio 2016-12-07 16:07:19 UTC #119

Baseball America on a minor change in the Rule 5 draft process:

zambonir 2016-12-07 21:31:44 UTC #120

It only takes a second to DFA someone. Just takes up to 10 days for the process to play out. We still don't know if it is allowed in the context of a Rule V pick, but certainly on Tuesday the Phillies unofficially signed Benoit before they DFA'ed Mariot, and the two transactions were official within seconds of each other.