Pitching Complete Games - Remembering Robin Roberts

[LoneStarPhan]

I saw this article commemorating Roberts pitching his 28th consecutive complete game on July 5, 1953. This was the second of those that went extra innings. The other went 17 innings. Roberts won 20 or more is 6 consecutive seasons and also pitched 300 or more innings in those years.

Don't expect we will see anything like the workhorse Roberts was back in the early 1950s.

Robin Roberts notches 28th straight complete game

[California_Dreamin]

Thanks LSP...I wrote in another thread that Roberts lost one of his pitching buddies, Gene Conley, on July 4 when he passed away at 86. You and I were fortunate enough to see the days when pitchers routinely finished what they started.

I was reading some old retrosheet games a couple of days ago, specifically the 1964 Phillies season and it was so fascinating...pitchers like Juan Marichal would even bat LATE in a game while trailing by a run because A] he was expected to go all the way and B] managers justifiably felt a tiring Marichal was still better than most relievers who might replace him.

[Austinfan]

The average FB was 89 a decade ago, probably in the mid-80s two to three decades ago.
So it's not comparable, the effort and the impact on the arm from throwing in the mid-90s is much greater, or why Jamie Moyer lasted forever.
It's like comparing dead ball BA to post 1920, different era.

So the idea that players were tougher back then is just stupid, they faced different hitters and pitched in a different style.
Measure them with respect to their peers, but don't compare them to today's pitchers.
Roberts measured up against his peers, and that's his accomplishment.

[California_Dreamin]

Really???? Then by you assessment soft tossers should be able to go 9 with some semblance of consistency. Yet they don't. And can't.

[Austinfan]

Again different era.

Soft tosser today aren't going against the hitters of 40 years ago for whom weight training and year around conditioning were unknown, where video breakdowns of pitchers weren't available, and so.on.
If Roberts pitched today he'd probably be a 7 inning pitcher throwing 3-4 MPH harder, because it's just a lot tougher to get through a lineup 3 or 4 times.

While PEDs created a hitters' blip, a more substantial change has been the "professionalization" of sports, players are trained earlier, harder and are more motivated (I mean look at the rewards today!).

[allentown]

The game has deliberately been stacked against the pitcher. The high strike was taken away. The mound was lowered. The baseball was juiced. Bats are better. Baseball has done much to increase offense and HRs over the years. Roberts pitched to contact. I don't think that style of pitching could survive today. Today there also is the glorification of the save and the closer, which makes it easier for a manager to lift a pitcher in the 8th or 9th inning.

Roberts wasn't part of the era of the totally dominating pitcher -- that came later with guys like Koufax, Gibson, and Marichal. Look at the K rates. Roberts led the majors in IP and usually Ks, from 1952 to 1956. His highest number of ks was 198 in 347 IP. That's a K-rate of only about 5-1/2 per 9. That would be seen as pedestrian today.

You could go back farther in time and Roberts' IP for a season look less extraordinary. Cy Young pitched over 400 IP in 4 seasons and only led baseball in innings for one of those years. Babe Ruth had 2 300+ IP seasons and also played in the field, before giving up pitching. You just can't compare IP across eras.

[bkeich]

The idea of pitching to contact is gone.

Look at the Phillies lineup, which is the worst or 2nd worst in the majors at the moment. There still isnt a single hitter that you can groove a pitch to, which was really not true 40-50 years ago, there were always a couple very light slap/singles hitters on most (all?) teams. Galvis is great example, he has hit 8th most of his career, but if you groove a pitch to him it is going out. Ruiz hit 8th for us for years, but was still dangerous if you didnt respect him.

Years ago pitchers did not throw all out on every pitch, they conserved themselves, they threw strikes when there was no one on base and they tried to get hitters to hit "pitchers" pitches. Now, every pitcher throws for the strikeout with every batter. Strikeouts have gone WAY, WAY up since those times, and it isnt that hitters are not fundamentally sound as so many old timers want to believe, it is because pitching has advanced and guys now throw harder with more cut on pitches. Great pitchers are great pitchers and can survive in an era, but it is the middle and lower skilled guys that have changed. Now you regularly have guys at the end of your pitching staff that throw 95+ and have 1-2 good pitches. That was an ace 50 years ago.

[LoneStarPhan]

There is no question that the game continues to change, but for the period of time when I first became a phan, Roberts was a dominant ace and my early days favorite player on the Phillies.

[bkeich]

There is no question that the game continues to change, but for the period of time when I first became a phan, Roberts was a dominant ace and my early days favorite player on the Phillies.

I am a little younger, but I still contend that the last Phillies pitcher that you expected to have a complete game (Steve Carlton) had the single most dominating pitch in baseball history. On his slider the only thing you could do with his slider was either take it and hope or swing and hit a slow ground ball to the best 3B in baseball history.

I wish they had the stats they have now for Carlton, I would have loved to see the BA against his slider. I seriously doubt it was 0.100.

I assume Roberts was fastball mostly? I missed him completely. Breaking ball?