January 15, 2025 International Signing Period

[owaistabish]

They also agreed to another pitcher from another academy. Phillies havent had much luck lately getting one of the lower $ signings to work out last few years aside from Rojas and Suarez.

[Florida_Sunshine]

I did video of a Brazilian kid. 90 mph fastball, good curve. We may get him too but his agent wants $700K and the two scouts I spoke with wanted to wait for that to come down. Not able to upload due to file but if someone wants me to send to them, they can post.

[Florida_Sunshine]

These are all 13-14 year olds and don’t they have to be 16 to be drafted. FYI, these tryouts are frequent and the Phillies staff was very open as were other teams. Might be interesting to put a group together.

[owaistabish]

No, they are not YET subject to a draft but thats been a long discussion that happens every CBA renewal.

[zambonir]

There's really no good answer. It's clearly a squirrelly and sometimes exploitative system (though I'm not sure the Philllies have really been too good to play in it, just didn't believe in spending the money for a long time or didn't have the best connections, which might be the same thing). But so are drafts and giving players no choice over where they get to work and live for a decade. Obviously the union still prioritizes the big paydays for the top int'l guys over a draft that would deflate overall earnings (but possibly spread it around better).

[Florida_Sunshine]

Sorry, not drafted. Signed.

[allentown]

or didn't have the best connections, which might be the same thing).

No, not the same thing. They know who all the buscones are; they've known that forever, probably. What this really means, in my opinion, is some teams have been willing to pay the buscones big $ under the table, thus having access to kids that organization don't have, but also meaning that these organizations are able to spend over cap as these bribes aren't reported and the kids are cheated out of part of what some team would have paid them as bonus $. It's an extremely corrupt system.

[zambonir]

Well, that's why it's the same thing - if the buscones are all corrupt, then you don't have good relationships with them because you don't pay them, whether out of cheapnesss or an ethical stance.

Unfortunately I'm not sure a draft would take the corruption out of the system, and might even make it worse, because the buscones would end up getting their end from the players instead of the teams, just not until draft day. And I don't think MLB or the USA can regulate that the way they do with domestic agents.

The cynic in me thinks that travel baseball and summer football camps aren't any less corrupt, except that it's mostly only rich American families being separated from their money there.

[schillingfan]

Does anyone care about corruption anymore. I fear we are anesthetized to believe everything and everyone is corrupt.b

[phillychuck]

Well, I’m sure the NBA draft is fixed if the Sixers don’t get Flagg...

[fish]

Well, that's why it's the same thing - if the buscones are all corrupt, then you don't have good relationships with them because you don't pay them, whether out of cheapnesss or an ethical stance

I wonder how much of that really happens. There is no honor among thieves- if that was happening and another team found out, I don’t doubt they’d make sure it got found out by mlb if they had an axe to grind. I’m sure the cut the academies take from the player when they sign may seem criminal, but they were the ones to put 3-5 years into these kids to develop rhen.

[allentown]

if the buscones are all corrupt,

I doubt that they are all corrupt or that all MLB teams pass bribes to the corrupt buscones. That's why only a few teams seem to have access to a good percentage of the primo talent.

[bkeich]

if the buscones are all corrupt,

I doubt that they are all corrupt or that all MLB teams pass bribes to the corrupt buscones. That's why only a few teams seem to have access to a good percentage of the primo talent.

I would assume that Buscones and Corrupt are the same word. I doubt there are any that don’t accept / insist on bribes. That is there business, getting money from ML clubs for “introductions” and guidance.

My guess is that every team is forced to spend some money this way, even if the finance office has to be creative in putting it in the books. The question is just how much.

[zambonir]

I doubt that the buscones see themselves as corrupt, as all they are doing is helping players get seen and get paid, just like Scott Boras. I'm sure some of them either overcharge their clients or flat-out skim/steal from them, and those people are corrupt even by the dubious standards of the system, but the team doesn't really enter in that that side of it. I would think Sal and most of his colleagues gladly work with most, and obviously don't refuse to do handshake/under-the-table deals anymore (to the point where they honored one they shouldn't have, as we've often lamented).

The Phillies' international failures include many more factors than the system or even the team (and Sal's) connections (which included what seemed to be weakness in the DR and an an emphasis on VZ). Just poor scouting and being 10 years behind a dozen teams in terms of manpower/brainpower/analytics couldn't have helped either.

[Docs]

Is this similar to the international soccer market from the non-MLB point of view?

In the international soccer market small domestic clubs sign a lot of young players and develop talent in order to sell the best player's contracts to big clubs, and those sales fund the program to invest in more young players, without any accusations of corruption. many of the young players will not pan out but the ones that do are big wins for the clubs and cover the costs of the kids that didn't develop. It is a more inclusive model than the United State's pay to play because it gives kids from lower economic backgrounds the same chances, increasing the pool of players because the payout is on the back end by the rich clubs rather than on the front end by the player's families.

I understand that MLB is different because teams are not buying a contract, but its in MLB's best interest to support the financing of the youth development, right? 50 years ago, maybe not, but now the money is so lopsided it makes sense to me. If MLB leaned into it, there could be better visibility and less fraudulent age representation.

[phillychuck]

Discuss: If there were an international draft, would it be better, worse, or the same for players? Include average players, players who will actually have big league careers, and washouts.

I don’t know what I think about this.

[andyb]

I think it would be better in the long run, though it would be incumbent on MLB to make sure the bonus pools were fair. They should probably total 50% of the regular draft pool or something close to that. They would also need competitive balance rounds like in the regular draft to account for disparities in pool size that are done now. Plus players should be able to sign for the same as undrafted regular draft players ($150K) if they go undrafted. 10 rounds is probably enough, maybe the first 5 with hard slots but the next 5 with the flexibility to use money saved in your pool from top rounds.

MLB's tendency is to save money on things like this. They should create a new system that enhances fairness without cutting money. Players will need to submit papers and go through physicals too. It needs to be fair in both directions.

[fish]

Discuss: If there were an international draft, would it be better, worse, or the same for players?

Maybe better in the sense that the best players will get paid the most (not so good for the guys now that get big money committed early that stall out$. It won’t be worse off so long as the development buscone academies stay in place. There may need to be some standardized cut that academies get though.

[owaistabish]

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