Hall of Fame Discussion 2022 and Beyond

[andyb]

That more grounded perspective didn't put Schilling or Vizquel in. In the case of Vizquel, to the contrary, guys with a more modern perspective on life and social norms are probably less likely to vote for him (his total has been cratering) as opposed to crusty old-school baseball writers who may have just rationalized what he did as him "just being a man".

The case against Vizquel was much more career WAR (45) than the off field stuff which came later and did not help.

With Schilling I bet he got the 75% among the younger sportswriters who look at the career and know he should be in. The older guys he was a jerk to probably less so. I think he'll get in eventually and he should be in.

[el-pietro]

Not just a cheat, but a liar too who throw the courier under the bus in an attempt to get away with it. Delighted to see him drop off the ballot.

[Pat_Burrell]

Agreed about Braun. I hated when he accused the courier of being anti-semetic and possibly having tampered with the sample

[zambonir]

With Schilling I bet he got the 75% among the younger sportswriters who look at the career and know he should be in. The older guys he was a jerk to probably less so. I think he'll get in eventually and he should be in.

I dunno, I think the younger sportswriters think he's a bigger jerk without ever having met him in person and do hold it against him. But also didn't Curt already tell people not to vote for him?

[BostonRoss]

A lot of older Hall of Famers have been outspoken against juicers. Some, like Joe Morgan, are no longer with us; some, like Frank Thomas, are. I wonder what percentage of the contemporaries of people like Bonds and Clemens who are in the Hall of Fame are dead set against their induction. There are quite a few of them in there. And some of them probably juiced themselves but didn't get caught (or were "unofficially" caught).

It's worth remembering that there are cheaters of other types in the Hall. Would Gaylord Perry have pitched well enough to get in if he hadn't doctored baseballs? It seems that the PED guys are tainted by the apparent degree to which their performance was enhanced.

As to morality, I have a hard time feeling like a statutory rapist like Rose should be honored, posthumously or not. There are certainly criminals in the hall of Fame, but that doesn't mean we have to allow others in. It's like saying every player as good as Harold Baines should be inducted.

[zambonir]

I suspect for Rose it's more the gambling than the alleged statutory rape in the eyes of his peers (who may have had their own issues unfamiliarity with age of consent laws in the '70s, along with many people in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame).

But for me, if I were a voter, given the morals clause does still exist, it's an easy no. Unlike with Dick Allen, not feeling like Pete's memory of family deserves the satisfaction either.

The interesting thing to me about the collective PED users is it was both pitchers and hitters (and hitters and fielders). Would Bonds and Clemens vote for each other? Would Pettite vote for A-Rod?

[BostonRoss]

I’m not sure Pettitte would vote for himself!

About 15 years ago, my son, then in eighth grade, was given a video from his school. It featured athletes telling kids to be good sports and citizens, including not taking drugs and steroids. Then Andy Pettitte popped up on the screen. The Mitchell report was out by then, but the video must have been filmed earlier. My son said, “Hmmm…”

[zambonir]

Not entirely O/T. No way it was just Deflategate, a few voters also had to just find you incredibly unlikeable.

Sources: Bill Belichick will not be a first-ballot Hall of Famer

[andyb]

I guess he is no Lombardi or Shula.

[phillychuck]

If Belichick isn’t first ballot the NFL voters should be extremely embarrassed. Or have their votes taken away. I don’t like the guy, but he deserves the accolade.

[jimbomill]

Not entirely O/T. No way it was just Deflategate

Don't forget Spygate. Especially on D, it seemed like NE's D knew what play the Eagles were running (because they did know) almost every time.

[Docs]

There was a quote in the paper from Sheldon brown after the Super Bowl where he said that in the second half no matter what they called on defense the patriots had an answer and at the time it was a they are just better comment but after spy gate it was clear they were cheating. It’s a shame that that cost the eagles their first Super Bowl.

[bigegypt0417]

That is embarrassing...it's odd to blame the other team for not figuring out your opponent has you figured out.

Spygate or whatever still comes down to a failure of the losing team.

[Squire]

Oh no. A legitimately awful human being with questionable ethics is being forced to wait a year for a stupid accolade. Of all the things to care about in today's society.

[Philsmania]

Oh no. A legitimately awful human being with questionable ethics is being forced to wait a year for a stupid accolade. Of all the things to care about in today's society.

Come on, now, he was teed up to get a Presidential Medal of Freedom from Trump at the end of his first term but declined it after and because of the events of 1/6/2021 so maybe he's not that awful.

Honestly, protest non-votes happen all the time with this stuff.