2017 Trade Deadline Rumors/Speculation/Discussion

[jimbomill]

He made trades, but did we get anyone who'll contribute in a year at the MLB level? In two? On the OK, Good, Better, Best, scale, he did OK.

[schooldoc]

If you're into that sort of thing, I think you have to grade Klentak's work at this deadline on a curve based upon what he had to sell. He didn't have a Gray or a Darvish who could bring him one or more prospects from another club's top ten list. He had two or three spare parts that were always only going to bring second-tier fliers. I give Klentak points for getting some international slot money and also throwing cash into trades in order to get some guys who may not be elite prospects, but are probably a step above pure organizational filler. I'd put guys like Mills and Jose Gomez (whenever the heck he gets healthy) in that category.

Klentak did a better job at this deadline than he did last year's, and I'm going to use a different scale and give him a solid B/B+ for it.

[andyb]

on the bright side, the Phillies can now sign Darvish this offseason without surrendering any kind of draft pick

And Otani will certainly want to play with him.

[zambonir]

I'd say "better" myself. If we're only rating the trades on their own merits. Where he only did okay was in the original talent acquisition, but the fact that these players were mostly old or average or had health issues was a feature, not a bug, and you also have to factor in their contributions to the team this year.

For some, I realize, the evaluation rises or falls on the return for Neshek but he is still a middle reliever who was acquired for cash.

I think moving Hellickson and Benoit was downright impressive, and points for getting Howie out of here before August given he wasn't back for very long.

The main thing is, these players, and the trade deadline, wasn't really that important. It's kind of like RISP. It's good to be good at it, but it's not as important as being good the other 80% of the time. Klentak will make his bones the next two off-seasons.

[allentown]

To hit 'best' on that scale, you have to have at least 'very good' to trade. Neshek was the best trade piece we had among the one-year guys. Getting even mildly interesting for Benoit, and "interesting -- we'll have to wait and see" for 2017 Hellickson is 'good' to me on your scale, at least relative to realistic expectations. I think the Kendrick return was fine for a guy just back from injury, who is basically just a super-utility guy for a contending team.

[Squire]

I just keep thinking how good the Giles trade would look if we had just stuck to the original composition

Giles for Oberholtzer, Velasquez, Fisher and Eshelman

Instead of getting nervous about Velasquez's medicals and changing the deal to

Giles/J. Arauz for Oberholtzer, Velasquez, Appel, Eshelman and H. Arauz.

Dang that hurts.

[andyb]

I think Klentak did OK at the deadline, though it is hard to think of it is great. He did get a few useful depth prospects and only gave players who will be gone and cash. The international allocations are a bonus assuming we put them to good use. The Kendrick trade was good. Less enamored with the Neshek trade where I would have preferred one decent prospect to the three lower grade prospects we got.

But Klentak got basic moves done and received plausible value in each trade - all good.

Where he still fell short is in the lack of "out of the box" trades. This means maybe we should have considered trading some controllable players. Galvis, Rupp, Neris, and Garcia are the best examples here. If those players could have returned significant value then we missed an opportunity to sell high at a time of scarcity (the deadline). We also did not bring back any dead contracts for prospects other than Kim which does not really count because we probably would have put cash in the deal anyway. This aspect cannot be graded of course, but it is worth noting that we did not do anything like this.

[Austinfan]

I doubt anyone offered anything worth trading those controllable players right now.
You don't trade current starters on a team that's turning it around for second tier A ball prospects, that's just silly, because at best they may become the same players you traded.

McGarry was a great pickup for Benoit, he's doing something this year, lights out in the FSL.

He was an 8th rd pick, MLB.com rates him the No. 147, BA at #270, JR out of FAU, so he's not some college senior RP.
He's had medical issues (his first couple years of college were interrupted by a stress fracture) and is probably more likely to stick in the 'pen. He can reach into the high 90s, and normally hovers in the mid 90s, and MLB.com suggests he could make it to the majors rather quickly.

Just adds more depth to the minor league pitching, and RPs have funny career trajectories, they often take longer to arrive, then suddenly the light goes on (or off).
Phillies threw cash in, which is how they got a real prospect for Benoit.

[bigegypt0417]

jorge mateo is legit.

[bkox]

He made trades, but did we get anyone who'll contribute in a year at the MLB level? In two? On the OK, Good, Better, Best, scale, he did OK.

Because of the 40 man roster crunch. Klentak was more focused on people who were further away. It was never going to be a focus on people that can help next year. We already have that in Kingery, Hoskins, Crawford, Eshelman and Alfaro and to a lesser extent Cozens and Quinn (assuming he ever gets out of ICU)

[julio]

He made trades, but did we get anyone who'll contribute in a year at the MLB level? In two? On the OK, Good, Better, Best, scale, he did OK.

Because of the 40 man roster crunch. Klentak was more focused on people who were further away. It was never going to be a focus on people that can help next year. We already have that in Kingery, Hoskins, Crawford, Eshelman and Alfaro and to a lesser extent Cozens and Quinn (assuming he ever gets out of ICU)

Exactly. But fans see what they want to see. If a fan just wants the major league team to be better - NOW - then that fan isn't going to be content with the return Klentak got in these deals. For better or worse, some fans cannot see beyond the next year or two (or, I suspect, really understand about prioritizing long-term benefit over short-term reward, in general).

[jimbomill]

Agreed, you need the right bait. Kendrick was a 2 year, $20M contract. Hellickson was 1 year for $17.2M, Benoit was also 1 year, for $7.5M and Neshek was $12.5M for two years. That's over $51M in signings, (cost is much less, around $25M plus whatever cash went with the respective deals).
The root cause to my gripe is that I'd rather have signed a better single FA or gone to the non-US market for much better potential. We spent a lot of money and didn't score a prospect that moved the excitement needle.

[Slinging_Southpaw]

I've been for a long time making the argument, that you could do better at less cost through the Rule 5 Draft. For the most part, these mediocre signings at best(if they stay healthy, if they perform) may get you what you could pick up by choosing what you want going the Rule 5 route.
Sure some won't make it, but there certainly aren't any guarantees coming from the players we just got back in trade.

[jimbomill]

Very inexpensive route is the Rule V draft.

[andyb]

doubt anyone offered anything worth trading those controllable players right now.
You don't trade current starters on a team that's turning it around for second tier A ball prospects, that's just silly, because at best they may become the same players you traded

We have no clue whether Klentak even tried and you have no clue that anything is offered. And players like Galvis DO have value and you trade them because you have plausible replacements like Crawford. If Galvis is not worth more than second tier prospects are you now suggesting he is not really that good?

Klentak did OK at this deadline but it was really nothing special. If players like Galvis and Rupp get surpassed we will have missed an opportunity to add value which is what a rebuilding team needs to do.

And no they did not get a good prospect for Benoit. They got a college reliever who took 2 years to get to High A. Our system equivalents are guys like Luke Leftwich and Trevor Bettancourt - fringy reliever prospects. 8th round picks are not that special also. He signed for a little below slot ($150,000 vs $168,800) because that is a point in the draft where teams look to save money. He is playing well this year and that is why we traded for him, but he is probably not in our top 50.

[Austinfan]

GMs talk to everyone about everyone, that's how these rumors get started in the first place.
You don't think Klentak talks about players like Galvis and Hernandez when every GM knows he's going to make a deal at some point?
But there's a lot of fishin', lowball offers to see if they can get a bargain.
If someone was really serious about prying one of those players away, you don't think there would be some smoke?

Leftwich is a good comparable for McGarry, 7th rd junior who has good stuff for a RP and has pitched well so far. Gilbert in the 6th rd in 2015.
Relief pitchers are rarely in the top 30 prospects until they get close to the majors.

Bettancourt was taken in the 25th rd of the 2016 draft, Hammer in the 23 round, Quinn in the 9th rd as a bargain senior.
Totally different animals, non-prospects until they do something to surprise.

[zambonir]

But you have no clue either. You're grading against a hypothetical. It seems pretty clear, based on the trades that happened, that there was no market for a SS or 1B, and you wouldn't have traded Rupp for what the catchers got (yes, he might have fetched more too, but not necessarily enough).

I would have been fine subtracting any of those guys from this roster, Galvis included, but trading him now was not going to be the best way to get value for him. His value will be the same in 12 months. It should be higher in November.

[Dirk41]

Total hypothetical, but if this was the Gray return, what could the Phillies get for Nola if he were to be shopped this offseason??

[allentown]

A year or two delay in the rebuild and a big, red STUPID! next to Klentak's name. Why in the world would we trade our best pitcher, when he is young, cheap, and shows hints of possibly being a little better than expected? I just don't understand it. It's not as though we have pitchers on the farm who are better than Nola or that we have more than 5 clear members of next year's starting rotation or even a clear starting rotation, without Nola, 3 years from now.

[zambonir]

I am sure he's just making conversation. It's really quite sad that the A's made that trade that early in his service time. The Phillies are never going to have to trade a player because they can't afford his arbitration years.