2017 Season Phillies News/Notes/General Discussion

[allentown]

That is a dumb article, but I don't read it as espousing the views of "TPTB" since they are presented in a quite unflattering light

The 'source' about the Odubel fine, etc. likely came from Pete and his staff. As in politics, providing a leak off the record and then responding 'no comment' on the record for publication is an old trick in getting media to do half of your hatchet work for you. The article isn't Klentak-friendly, but there are other members of TPTB. As is true in most organizations, especially those in transition and/or not doing well at the moment, not everyone wants to follow the same game plan and many have their own fannies to cover. This article is such a laid-on with a trowel absolution of Pete, that he and Bob have clearly been working each other for a while..

[andyb]

I think I go with the opinion that we cherry pick Neshek's outing so he maintains his record until we trade him. 3 1-inning outings a week seems about right for him. He is really kind of a ROOGY anyway and not suited for longer work.

[zambonir]

Yup that's why Hayes' column was so dubious. It didn't seem to occur to him that the Phillies would want Neshek to be tradeable even more than he does.

The Ford column seems like a whole lot of nothing, lots of media guys like Mackanin, but nothing can save this season or his job. If the Phillies want him here next year he'll be here and if they don't he'll still probably finish the season. I agree Mackanin (or a coach, likely Bowa) could be the "leak" but still not a big deal. Ford's take on Herrera is unsophisticated but I don't think it is how Mackanin or Klentak feel. I mean, Lord helps us if Klentak really does go to the Wade/Amaro playbook and depresses the trade value of his own players.

[BostonRoss]

I guess I don't get why TPTB would want to build up Mackanin and throw Klentak under the bus.

[Austinfan]

I wouldn't get overly excited.
The truth is Herrera is an exasperating player, for his teammates as well, Galvis pretty much said as much.
With Blanco on the way out, Galvis seems to have become the de facto leader of the LA contingent, and as he continues to improve on the field, the whole team.

I don't think Odubel is a "bad guy," and I don't think he's being portrayed that way, rather, he really has a problem with concentration - I've never seen anyone with so many gaffes in such a short period - and it's not that he's lazy or makes it look easy (the preception of Abreu) - rather, he just is really erratic, pitch to pitch, play to play.

If he wasn't talented, it wouldn't be an issue, he'd be in the minors.

I don't think they're really looking to trade him, they know he has the potential to be a star and is so low cost they can afford to be patient.
But everyone is at a loss how to fix him, including Odubel - you see him slapping his helmet after he swings at a bad pitch like he's telling himself "fool, why'd you go do that?"

Sometimes with a rebuilding team, you have to take a deep breath and relax.
Franco is a good example, Stairs works on his stance in practice, then in games he reverts back to old habits, but he does have ABs and games where he puts into play what he'd been doing in pracitce.
Now, it's the end of June, it takes time, if come September he makes no progress, then you worry, but right now, while it's frustrating, it's part of player development - which isn't linear, "two steps forward, one step back."
We've seen this with a lot of players this year, and that's the trademark of a rebuilding team, extreme inconsistency.

[julio]

Howie Kendrick back to the DL, per Jim Salisbury:

Jim Salisbury (JSalisburyCSN)

[Austinfan]

I thought I heard Eickhoff should be ready for his next scheduled start.

[Philsmania]

That is a dumb article, but I don't read it as espousing the views of "TPTB" since they are presented in a quite unflattering light

The 'source' about the Odubel fine, etc. likely came from Pete and his staff. As in politics, providing a leak off the record and then responding 'no comment' on the record for publication is an old trick in getting media to do half of your hatchet work for you. The article isn't Klentak-friendly, but there are other members of TPTB. As is true in most organizations, especially those in transition and/or not doing well at the moment, not everyone wants to follow the same game plan and many have their own fannies to cover. This article is such a laid-on with a trowel absolution of Pete, that he and Bob have clearly been working each other for a while..

Have we ever found a smoking gun that the Phillies leak unflattering stuff about their players? Also, no one ever answered the question whether we have any anecdotal or actual evidence that this stuff doesn't happen in other organizations. I, for one, bet dollars to donuts that if it happens, it happens everywhere.

[allentown]

I guess I don't get why TPTB would want to build up Mackanin and throw Klentak under the bus

I doubt they do. One guy in the executive suite mike not like Klentak, but I think you start the train rolling with your leaks and the reporters add their own twist, with guys they don't like. This reporter seems not to like Klentak.

[allentown]

Have we ever found a smoking gun that the Phillies leak unflattering stuff about their players

We certainly did in the past with Rolen, Schill, and Abreu. It is next to impossible to find a smoking gun, unless the shooter is obvious enough to do stuff like have the team-approvedpaid announcers pile on Abreu or make up phony contract offers and claim that he offered them to Rolen

[julio]

One guy in the executive suite mike not like Klentak, but I think you start the train rolling with your leaks and the reporters add their own twist, with guys they don't like. This reporter seems not to like Klentak.

Bob Ford is a traditionalist reporter. He started covering the Phillies nearly 40 years ago. He presumably has long-standing relationships with some of the oldest dinosaurs who still haunt the Phillies' front offices in some capacity. It's natural that he would identify with Mackanin (the veteran) and be less enamored of the young guy, with no background as a player, not a "Phillies lifer." So his writing is going to reflect that.

[zambonir]

I honestly don't even remember when Bob Ford was on any kind of beat though I'm sure he was. The general sports columnists are generally worthless to me. They are there to sell an opinion and stir things up. Ford wasn't the person who was "leaked" to though, that was already out there.

But we've already seen this with the Sixers, the younger writers and most of the beat guys understood what the team was trying to do even if they didn't always agree with it, while the older guys and parachute-in columnists would go watch one game or respond to the latest injury with short-term thinking.

Baseball guys in general tend to like the manager I think. They spend 100-200 days together (depending on whether the reporter travels, not many do anymore). They are around the coaching staff. The GM is always going to be less friendly and more opaque.

Part of me would be really impressed if the Phillies kept Mackanin, because I don't really think he's bad, and if they did so, it would say they are not susceptible to public pressure. But I don't think you can really survive a season this bad. Or should. So I guess we'll see how August and September go for him with a new roster (I definitely don't think they should promote a coach or disrupt the Iron Pigs for an interim replacement). In terms of the Astros/Cubs rebuilding analogy the Phillies still have another manager to go before they get to their winner, though the Cubs situation was unique. Astros-wise I think Mackanin is part Brad Mills (the holdover) and part Bo Porter (the guy who was supposed to start the upwards direction but didn't).

[Austinfan]

It wouldn't surprise me if Mac is just a placeholder for Wathan, who coached most of their top prospects at Reading and now Lehigh.
They're going to have a very young roster in a year or two, and may prefer a coach who has proven he can reach and teach these guys.
But there's no point doing the move this season, this is a transition year, the first wave of youth, and a lot of temporary fixes.
In two years the roster will be almost completely overhauled with trades and promotions.

[allentown]

An interesting oddity as reported in yesterday's Crashburn Alley: the position player leading the Phillies in fWAR, with an fwar of +1.2 is Odubel Herrera and he is a below average hitter with a wRC+ of only 78. The author is, of course, comparing less than half-season numbers which may well improve by season end. The last time the Phillies position player leader in fWAR had an wRC+ below average (less than 100), was way back in 1961, when Ruben Amaro, Sr. was the leader. If nothing else, this shows how strongly fWAR is driven by defensive value.

[David_Criss]

If Kendrick goes on the DL, which various reports has said is happening, the Phillies have a couple tough choices to make. With the OF set at Altherr, Hererra and Perkins/Nava - no sense in bringing up Cozens or Williams. Crawford has seemed to begin hitting again.
Who gets bumped from the rotation in favor of Eickoff? Why not let him have a rehab start in LeHigh since Leiter deserves another start imo.
Is it time to bring up Hoskins? Where does he play? Is it time to let Kingery jump and show what he can do at the big league level? Both will need to be added to the 40-man this winter anyway.
is it time to see what Glavis can do at 2B and let Crawford come up?
How do you create 40-man space for E. Garcia's return and to add a Florimon/Kingery/Hoskins/Crawford? Do Valentin, Quinn, Velasquez or Hernandez get moved to the 60-day DL? I ask because I don't know how those rules work, but I suspect they will all end up missing two-months. Can a player on the DL be designated? i.e. Fien?

[zambonir]

I think they'll just bring up the extra OF anyway, or carry the extra pitcher. This is still way too temporary a situation (with Kendrick and Hernandez both injured and Neshek, at least, possibly traded in 2-3 weeks rather than 4-5) to make the more dramatic moves. The fact that they need to make room for Garcia makes it that much harder to just bring up Florimon (or anyone else).

I don't think they can designate Fien, yet. Valentin to the 60 seems possible.

[Austinfan]

As far as bringing up any kids, no one other than Hoskins has earned a promotion, and it makes more sense for Hoskins to play every day and build up his trade value (and the same for Joseph), then make a decision this winter. Kingery needs the AAA ABs, Williams and Alfaro to keep working on their plate discipline.

September will provide the opportunity for promotions and ML cameos.

[zambonir]

I think you're going to see Williams after the trades. No, it wouldn't hurt if he finished the AAA season, including playoffs. But he's doing well enough that it wouldn't be premature to bring him up, and having two months of information on him at the big league level could be useful. He's the only player you can really get that with, given Crawford's troubles and other guys (whether they are ready or not) being blocked.

[julio]

Is it time to bring up Hoskins? Where does he play? Is it time to let Kingery jump and show what he can do at the big league level? Both will need to be added to the 40-man this winter anyway.

Rhys Hoskins was a 2014 draftee, and will be Rule 5-eligible this December if not on the 40-man roster. Scott Kingery was a 2015 draftee, and will Rule 5-eligible in December 2018 - NOT this winter.

[zambonir]

They could both get their September call-ups assuming the 40 is a lot more roomy but I doubt it happens any sooner. If the team was playing .500 ball, the need to bolster the major league roster would outweigh the roster/developmental considerations. But that's not the case here. Heck, the team is 4-3 since Kendrick's injury!