2017 Season Phillies Discussion (News/Notes, etc.), continued

[flyers19rw]

It was me that suggested that he skip winter ball but that was to get his head cleared. I still believe that it might do him best to go home and work on his hitting with someone outside of the Phillies organization since whoever is doing that now isn't bearing fruit.
IDK if he's injured. I don't like him being pulled out of games. If he's hurt, don't play him. Then there is this stuff of JPC and Kingery doing time at 3B. If that's being done to pressure him, there are other ways to do that. It would be just more head games.
As I posted above, before we see any improvement in his game, he needs better pitch and zone recognition. Without that, nothing else will matter. Might as well sign Todd Frazier in the off season and forget about Franco.

[zambonir]

I don't think the Phillies are playing games with anybody. They've got a crowded 40 and need to keep their options open through September, the off-season and ST, depending on whatever DFAs or trades happen before then. And if at the end of the day Hernandez, Kingery and Crawford are your three best IFs and one of them is also an upgrade over Franco, it is one option, just like trading a 2B is another option.

And signing a FA 3B is another. I'd take Moustakas over Frazier, Frazier is too old (and seemingly in decline). It is definitely a strategy, if you don't think you can land Machado.

Franco was never a highly thought of as Dom Brown, even. It's just that those are the only two prospects this organization had for several years.

[Dirk41]

A Pigs lineup with Crawford at 2B and Kingery at SS is almost poetically 2017 Phillies thinking.

[bkox]

Matt Gelb (MattGelb)

Matt Gelb (MattGelb)

[California_Dreamin]

I don't want to come across as Debby Downer so I will praise where praise is warranted. In all my life as a Phillie phan [second half of the '63 season] I can only recall ONE player who started his major league career with the power display put on by Hoskins and that was Richie Allen in 1964 when he hit 6 home runs in his first 12 games.

No one else has performed like Hoskins, no one. Not Luzinski, not Callison, not Rolen, not Burrell..all of whom were highly touted rookies with the Phils and all of whom had outstanding careers in red pinstripes.

I want us to talk about Hoskins in hushed tones because if this road trip is any indication [and I think it is], the Phils just found themselves the star that so many have been saying they didn't have in the organization.

[LoneStarPhan]

I agree that it is easy to get negative vibes about this organization. I fear that they lack overall directions throughout the system. I hope I am wrong.

I have no problem with having players get some experience at other positions but I think it is far too soon to think of playing Crawford anywhere but shortstop and Kingery anywhere but second.

I see the coming off season as the critical time for this organization. They need to make smart moves that put them firmly on the path back to making the post season. We need to see positive steps of improvement in the 2018 season.

[California_Dreamin]

In my almost roller coaster like "she loves me, she loves me not" symposium on my thoughts of the team and organization right now, here's another "huzzah, huzzah" for Adam Morgan.

Quietly, he has turned himself into a first class lefty reliever and it couldn't have happened to a more worthy guy. Many would have given up by now [and many did give up on him, yours truly included] and what he has done is truly impressive. Two wins in two days calls for a two thumbs up salute.

And duly done!

[LoneStarPhan]

I was just reading the articles talking about Crawford playing third base. I guess they are saying that Crawford likely will play third base if called up in September. I have some concerns about calling him up and asking him to play a new position. Yes, I know, they just did it with Hoskins, but still, it just adds another thing to his adjustment to the call up.

[California_Dreamin]

This is fine if its temporary but bad if its permanent. Crawford's potential offensive production as a SS is great, as a 3rd baseman, very mediocre. But the Dodgers have been doing this kind of thing all year and it has worked so I will wait and see.

[flyers19rw]

Is all of this musical position chairs being called for by Klentak/Jordan/MacPhail?

[Lucky_Beagle]

This is fine if its temporary but bad if its permanent. Crawford's potential offensive production as a SS is great, as a 3rd baseman, very mediocre. But the Dodgers have been doing this kind of thing all year and it has worked so I will wait and see.

I don't think it is fine. If Crawford is going to the shortstop of the future (starting next season, I hope) why play him anywhere else if he is called up. Let Galvis show he can play multiple positions to help his trade value!

[California_Dreamin]

flyers19rw...I hope I am wrong but I believe its out of deference to Peter Mac's love for Galvis and the shortstops oft verbalized goal of starting all 162 games. To me, there seems no other logical reason to move Crawford to a position where his offensive numbers are even likely to be dwarfed by Franco.

[phillychuck]

Bottom line--you don't play games with Crawford's position to accommodate Freddy Freakin' Galvis. Move Galvis to 3B if Crawford comes up in September. Heck, sit Freddy on the bench. But don't mess around with Crawford after he's finally figuring out the offensive half of the game.

This is such a Phillies thing to do.

[zambonir]

The 162-game thing really doesn't bother me. And I don't even like Galvis! But he's the longest tenured Phillies player, the apparent clubhouse leader, and it means something to him. In a meaningless season a little sentiment doesn't bother me. It's not actually coming at Crawford's expense, because a month ago there was an almost-zero chance they were even going to add him to the 40 for September (of course a month ago they also though he'd be in the AAA playoffs). Things have changed and they are looking for a way to give him a few looks (maybe, we still don't know if this will end with him starting at 3B in the major leagues two weeks from now).

I don't think the fact that LV's playoff hopes are dwindling is a coincidence either. With the struggles and all the player movement Klentak, Jordan and Wathan can experiment with the AAA roster as much as they want, for what is only likely to be two weeks. It's like early spring training (and so are the major league games).

I would not be thrilled if JP Crawford is the Phillies starting 3B next season, but that's mostly because I hope they trade Galvis for a pitcher. If they want to extend Galvis - again, not my preference, but not impossible - would you rather move Crawford or trade him? Hey, what if he is Machado's replacement on the Orioles?

[California_Dreamin]

Mentioned that I could not remember a Phillie rookie other than Richie Allen [6 home runs in 12 games] who had such a debut as Hoskins has had [ 5 home runs in first 11 games] but I now remember one! Catcher Bobby Estalella actually hit 6 home runs in his first 7 starts during the end of 1996/beginning 1997.

In fact I remember an article written in late May 1998 when it was obvious the Phils would draft Pat Burrell in a few weeks and were still trying to sign JD Drew from the '97 drafty that the Phils might have a very impressive lineup soon featuring Rolen, Abreu, Burrell, Drew and Estalella.

Obviously it was not to be.

[nycphils]

Hoskins looks like a only slightly poorer mans version of Paul Goldschmit. Yes please.

[bkeich]

Sadly, I imagine that Crawford will be playing 3B in September occasionally. Pete M is probably arguing that Galvis is on the verge of winning a GG and is an essential player on this team. I don't have any issue with Galvis as a UT, but it is lost value as I suspect he could bring something in a trade.

[Lawman]

In all my life as a Phillie phan [second half of the '63 season] I can only recall ONE player who started his major league career with the power display put on by Hoskins and that was Richie Allen in 1964 when he hit 6 home runs in his first 12 games.

No one else has performed like Hoskins, no one. Not Luzinski, not Callison, not Rolen, not Burrell..all of whom were highly touted rookies with the Phils and all of whom had outstanding careers in red pinstripes.

It, apparently, has been done before. By another touted prospect who didn't live up to his hype.
SOUND SMART WITH YOUR FRIENDS
Hoskins' solo homer in the ninth gave him five homers in his first 11 games. The last Phillies player to do that was Bobby Estalella, who did it in 1996-97.

[kmc1019]

A pessimistic but increasingly evident outcome rarely discussed on this board is that the Phillies will need to shop externally for their catcher of the future. None of Rupp, Alfaro or Knapp are strong defensively, nor are their bats good enough to forgive their shortcomings in framing pitches, blocking balls, etc.

We seem to assume that one of them will rise above the others, but just because the Phillies have stockpiled several catchers does not mean that any will pan out. I'm on to Deivi Grullon and wondering if some of our dormant cash should not be spent on overpaying for Jonathan Lucroy or equivalent for a couple of years.

If this team wants to compete for Machado or Harper, they need to make themselves a whole lot better for 2018 as it is doubtful a superstar will want to sign with a cellar dwelling team. Among other areas, Catcher is one where we likely need an upgrade from outside the organization.

[California_Dreamin]

Actually Lawman, I posted on this same thread last night that Estalella had indeed hit 6 home runs in his first 7 starts in the big leagues, including an epic 3 home run game against Montreal early in 1997 [two off of the vaunted Pedro Martinez.] I suppose you missed that update though I wrote it only a few hours before you posted.