The Unending Flyers Thread

[xogfog]

I don't know how they dig themselves out of this mess...

[zambonir]

I think you probably do stay the course, or possibly even white flag it a little, though trades are also complicated by the expansion draft. So do you sell or try and make a move on defense?

If anything this is on Fletcher (but it's also just what he inherited). Change some assistants and make some moves in the off-season. But 3 NHL teams have already changed coaches this year and I think close to a dozen of them are only in their second season (including ours) so the leash is shorter than ever. There's still time, of course.

[zambonir]

OT (off-topic) and OT (overtime): if you're awake and like hockey, North Dakota-Minnesota Duluth is about to hit quadruple overtime. Leah Hextall (son of Dennis so I guess that makes her Ron's cousin?) calling it for ESPN.

[LegoDoom]

OT (off-topic) and OT (overtime): if you're awake and like hockey, North Dakota-Minnesota Duluth is about to hit quadruple overtime. Leah Hextall (son of Dennis so I guess that makes her Ron's cousin?) calling it for ESPN.

I'm upset I missed this. Not only because of 5 OT, but I would have liked to watch Flyers prospect Noah Cates.

[VoteForKalas]

I think 4 things are going on that have led to this deep funk the Flyers are in:

1. The COVID-19 outbreak hurt this team's roster and momentum, but it also broke their game energy having to sit out for close to two weeks before being expected to play catch up at breakneck speed afterwards.

2. Related to the above, almost all the young guns with the exception of Farabee are struggling - Provorov, Sanheim and Myers in the back end, Hart in goal and Patrick, Lindblom and Konecny up front. That is a lot of talent the Flyers depend on.

3. The PP and PK continue to struggle and I do not see much creativity from the asst coaches in charge to fix these units. The talent is there on both units, but they seem to never change their approach or try anything innovative.

4. The vets like Giroux, JVR, Voracek etc. are no longer good enough to pick up major slack. I've thought for years we need to trade Voracek, but it seems they are going to run out his contract string instead. JVR started well, Hayes has been decent, but Couturier is your best player and he needs more help.

[xogfog]

Ghost cleared waivers and will go to the taxi squad, Flyers save a little over 1 mil with the move, hopefully a trade is in the works for a good d-man.

[zambonir]

I had the impression he's still playing tonight, or at least could. But on nights he doesn't play, or non game days, it get them that prorated cap break.

Doesn't seem like the trade market is really gonna break their way, and they also have the expansion draft to think about. Also rumored they want a goalie.

[bigegypt0417]

Someone on twitter yesterday was reporting they are looking to make a major move...not sure if that happens.

Edit...here it is.

Flyers put Shayne Gostisbehere on waivers. Is a trade in the works?

[zambonir]

Might seriously be time to think about which direction the trading's gonna be in.

[zambonir]

Last year around this time (well, pre-pandemic) it seemed really surprising that the Flyers were more of a championship contender than the Sixers; this year it's quite the opposite.

Flyers sign Scott Laughton; trade Michael Raffl to Washington, send Erik...

Glad they kept Laughton, lots to do for next year now.

This is kind of an amazing factoid:

Trading Raffl -- who played 504 games with the Flyers, which is more than Paul Holmgren, Ross Lonsberry, Ron Hextall, Bernie Parent, Eric Lindros, Dave Poulin, Mike Richards, Mel Bridgman and many others -- means rookies Tanner Laczynski and Wade Allison could get more playing time.

[xogfog]

I had to dig a bit to find this thread, shows how awful this Flyers season has been. Just a little interesting news, Cam York will play his first game as a Flyer tomorrow..

[Philsmania]

Philadelphia's other failed rebuild. Their chance was last year. Time to gut the scouting department, tear it all all up and start over again.

[bigegypt0417]

This is a little bit of an overreaction...they need to add some pieces to a very young core.

[zambonir]

Yeah, they are still fine unless Hart is a flop, and that certainly wasn't a scouting mistake. Tons of good young players who disappointed, too soon to say they've failed, especially coming off of last year (both in general and with what Lindbom and Patrick had). Certainly there are some similarities in the choices ownership and the front office made, both with the pace of the rebuild and then changing everything. But it also may have just been COVID.

It would be almost impossible to tear it up anyway. Moving the older guys won't be enough and moving Couturier would be too drastic. They gotta hope for a litle break in the expansion draft and then make one good defensive move. What happened to them this year was pretty unexpected (both the retirement and the fact that he was missed so much) even if Fletcher also did a bad job adjusting.

[bkeich]

Flyers season running down to the merciful end and the blame is simple. Dead last in goals allowed. Offense is OK, but they cant stop the other team from scoring.

Going to be a tough offseason, we have an old core that is aging past their prime and using up most of the salary cap. Some number of Giroux, JVR, Voracek, Hayes and Couturier have to go. Riding them to the bottom seems like, well, Phillies 2013 thinking. Shame, I wanted to see the guys that have been here awhile stay. All of them would still bring back something, G and Coots probably bringing back the biggest return.

Hate to see it, but the Ghost drama must end. He has been on the trade block for 3 seasons, time to just be done with it.

Move forward, have another bad season, bring people up, bring in a goalie coach to help Hart (no idea who our Goalie coach is, but he is about to be unemployed I assume), look at the defense structure and make changes. I know we have alot of young defensemen, but they really are not getting the job done, we need leadership in that room I fear (or something).

I doubt 2022 will be much better given the number of issues exposed, especially when you consider we were fairly healthy most of the season. Maybe a few surgical moves can change things, this team looked good before its Covid break, but it collapsed afterward.

[Philsmania]

Even with a shortened schedule, this felt like a long season. Once their playoff hopes realistically died by late March, the rest of the season became a long slog to the finish. I would turn on the TV to see the Phillies and both NBCSNP and NBCSNP+ would be occupied by the Sixers and Flyers and the Flyers would make me say "They're still playing?!"

[zambonir]

I'm afraid that like the 2021 Phillies, the Flyers have no intention of rebuilding or even retooling. They're hoping to to lose JVR or JV to the Kraken (or, barring that Ghost) and shed one other player/salary at most. Big free agent defenseman signing and one forward. Could that be done creatively via trade? Maybe.

I'm not sure Giroux, Voracek or JVR have any serious value and Couts is still too young and too good to trade.

They certainly don't feel like a top team, but they're also not a non-playoff team, assuming goalie works out, and once you make it you never know, more so than in the other sports.

I imagine we're about to hear about some injuries and serious COVID issues in the post-season press interviews.

[VoteForKalas]

They do not need to rebuild. They are already stacked with young talent with more coming soon. The farm is full.

That young talent needs to be developed, however, and that is where things have fallen down this year. After much progress last season, most of the young talent except for Farabee have taken steps backward. Hart is the big issue, but Patrick, Myers & Lindblom also need more time & structure.

They do need to shed one of those high salary vets, Voracek would be my choice, but his contract is huge and long unfortunately. Seattle could be enticed to take JVR (smaller salary, less years), but we may need to throw in a pick as incentive.

Then we could be more active in FA for a W to help that second or third line and D to play with Provorov in the first pair.

[zambonir]

You really can't read too much into this season either. Yeah, every team played under the same conditions, but not every team had COVID, and some teams just didn't do as well with the different kind of year. Expecting a group of young players - especially two guys recovering from serious conditions who barely had a season last year - to take steps forward in this particular season may not have been realistic. Ditto expecting a group of young single players to handle the grind of a pro hockey season under quarantine well.

The schedule also hurt some teams and helped others. It's unlikely the Flyers still would have made the playoffs in a full season with a normal schedule, but who knows.

The idea that the WIP crowd can just treat this season like it was normal, or that it would have been okay for Ed Snider to tear off some heads or fire/trade some people were he alive, is just insane to me. I'm sure it doesn't help that the Sixers thrived though.

[flyers19rw]

Every club faced similar conditions. The Flyers exhibited some alarming characteristics. The number of games where they started out flat and fell behind; they quickly gave up goals after scoring; the inability to get the puck out of their own end against a forecheck; the reliance on the stretch pass which led to icings; weak PP; poor PK; defensive breakdowns allowing odd man situations in front of the goalie; the list could go on. All of these indicate that the coaching schemes were poor and adjustments to correct these flaws were not made. Too often the Flyers were easy marks for their opponents,