The '25-'26 Philadelphia Flyers thread

[flyers19rw]

Don’t get your hopes up for obtaining Larkin. Yzerman has nothing to fear from ownership. He’s loved by the Illitch family.
Yzerman is as old school as there is. If a team wants Larkin they will have to overpay in order to get him. Yzerman is not going to get rolled like Briere was by Gauthier’s group. If Larkin wants to withhold his services in order to force a trade, Yzerman will let him rot. Larkin is signed for five more seasons and Yzerman will hold him to that just like he did with Drouin when he pulled the trade me card.
There is a lot of sentiment in the League to step on these stars who try to force trades on their clubs. Eichel did that, so did Hughes and Gauthierand other draftees that refuse to sign with the clubs that selected them. The CBA has an out for these types of disgruntled players-play out your deal and go UFA. The stuff like Larkin is pulling could lead to contractual anarchy and turn the NHL into the NBA. Yzerman, as well as others in management know this. He’ll hold the line on Larkin.

[bigegypt0417]

That's not how the modern NHL or sports work.

If you do that then you become an organization no one wants to go to. Yzerman will not just hold him out of spite.

Larkin will get a good return and the Red Wings will trade him.

[zambonir]

The pressure on Yzerman is from the fans at this point. The past season was a disaster. And yes, BE is right, this sort of thing is as mundane in the NHL as the NBA and NFL.

It's also nothing like Gauthier, the draft system gives all drafted players the right to not sign, and all teams the right to not sign their picks (as the Flyers just chose to do with a somewhat less important player). And Hughes was because the Canucks were rebuilding not because he wanted out no matter what. He just wasn't going to re-sign with them in two seasons because he correctly felt they would not be close to contending by then. Which is also why Tocchet is coaching the Flyers (he did not get fired).

Larkin has less leverage being under contract, but he has enough leverage. And as a lifelong Red Wing, Michigan native and their captain, the team is going to have to do right by him while still getting value, not get into a fight. Wings might also choose to trade DeBrincat and reset completely, because what they've been doing ain't working.

[VoteForKalas]

Larkin will get a good return and the Red Wings will trade him.

Agree, it is actually a great opportunity for the Red Wings to retool their team and increase their chances to make future playoff runs.

[Austinfan]

Larkin doesn't fit the Flyers timeline and will cost too much.
Thomas is a better fit but the price is prohibitive.
I expect Briere to pass unless the price goes down - stripping your team to add a 30 year old center is a fool's errand.

Dvorak is different, no assets, reasonable salary that allows you to bury or trade him in 3 years.

Flyers are 2-3 years away, as shown by the Car series.
Best thing is continue to add assets, see how the prospects develop, and maybe next summer or the one after, when you've built up surplus assets and know what you have to make the "big trade."

[bigegypt0417]

You're wrong even based on your own metric...you said in the past the goal was what? a 100 point team...they got to 98.

You should just admit what it is in your mind...every prospect will work out and the flyers should just muddle along until 2029. Don't spend money and hope you draft perfectly.

[Austinfan]

A perennial 100 point team that gets to the 2nd rd or deeper every season.
Like Carolina or VGK most seasons, or FLA until last season.

Bad GMs get fooled by one good season, we see this in every sport.
They put up the "Mission Accomplished" sign and mortgage the future.
A good GM is honest, a good season doesn't mean you don't have serious flaws, just that everything clicked one time.
If by next summer, Michkov rebounds, Martone ascends, Bump is a 20+ goal scorer, Barkey is for real, Murchison and Bonk are starting D-men, Jett and Knuble come up in April and show they belong . . .

Point is when they get to the point where they have filled out the roster, have AHL prospect depth and accumulated additional assets, and the team is on the cusp of being a SC contender for the long-term, THEN you make the big move to get over the top. If a move doesn't work out, you have the depth and resilience to go back to the table for another try.

[bigegypt0417]

Bad GMs get fooled by one good season, we see this in every sport.

Terrible GM's sit back and wait for some magical timeline.

If you have a team that is moving ahead of whatever timeline you put in your head, you take advantage of that and make moves that can help you win. Larkin is on a good contract and still has something in the tank. 1st line centers don't grow on trees.

[VoteForKalas]

The problem is reality aka the NHL, players, agents, teams etc. will not wait until the Flyers are ready or their timeline is right..

Opportunities will come when they come and any good GM will and should absolutely check out every single one of the to see if they benefit the Flyers and move us closer to Cup contention.

[zambonir]

If by next summer, Michkov rebounds, Martone ascends, Bump is a 20+ goal scorer, Barkey is for real,

Imagine how much they might improve with another good center on the team! Briere's not going to win a bidding war, but a guy of Larkin's age and contract definitely fits the timeline, and they have wings and d-men to trade from. They don't really have any centers other than converted wings and third-line types who may or may not rise to become more.

It's perfectly reasonable to to take one more year to let this group shake out but if the right center is available it's also reasonable to pounce.

And if you can get Matthews, even for only two years, you do that too. The Leafs pick would be part of any trade probably.

[Austinfan]

Don't want Larkin or Matthews. Both on the cusp of 30, and Matthews has injury issues.
If the Flyers were at the point where they were competitive with CAR, and one player might put them over the top, that would be a different story.
But when you have to give up a lot of young assets for a 2 year window, pass.

Now signing Carlson to a 2 year deal when you have loads of cap room and it costs you no assets, that's a different story. He can help you win now without mortgaging the future.

[VoteForKalas]

Agree on Carlson, hope that happens as it would help our defense, the PP and allow us to trade Risto for value before he gets injured again.

[zambonir]

Cusp of 30 is not the same thing as being 33. Or 35. All the elite teams have important 29-31 year-old players (and I'm not even counting Taylor Hall). It all depends on the price.

But if you're going to convince Carlson to come here, a center who greatly improves the team over the next two seasons is a necessary piece of that. Why would he come to a team isn't competitive with CAR or TPA or Montreal?

[zambonir]

How sensible is it for each NHL team to make a Dylan Larkin trade?

Philadelphia Flyers
It makes a lot of sense

The Flyers have a solid group of still-improving young players in place, as evidenced by their surprising run to the second round of the playoffs. What they don’t have is a potential top-line center on the roster or in the system. That’s most likely going to have to be acquired via trade, so if Larkin is available, I would expect the Flyers to be very interested. — Kevin Kurz

Still doesn't mean the Flyers can come through with the best or even fifth-best offer. But we shall see.

[bigegypt0417]

AF has a very narrow standard to spend assets. You can't spend money unless you're....competitive with Carolina in the playoffs?

This weird idea you have to become good with yoyr own players is just not how it works. Is Larkin a must? No. But 1st line centers don't grow on trees.

[zambonir]

There is also a sweet spot between seeing which of your young players rise to the top, and trading some of them before that process has finished, because the ones who don't rise to the top will also have a lot less trade value, or turn into RFAs you lose for nothing (as Frost would have). Briere has been pretty decisive about who to punt on. He's also been good at getting distressed assets. But he still has tradeable picks if he wants.

[phillychuck]

Don't want Larkin or Matthews. Both on the cusp of 30, and Matthews has injury issues.
If the Flyers were at the point where they were competitive with CAR, and one player might put them over the top, that would be a different story.

I don’t know that they are not competitive with Car if you add Larkin and Carlson and don’t subtract any more than one of the current crew. You can’t discount the possibility that Martone (who is untouchable In my humble opinion), Barkey, Bump, Bonk, etc. will not improve and improve substantially. You can’t always turn down deals because of your timeline, which is arbitrary, anyway. Sometimes reality changes your timeline.

I’m not saying Larkin is a “must do” thing. I just think it can’t be dismissed out of hand, either, if the price is, say, Michkov (who they don’t trust), another youngish player that you choose, and draft choices. If they get him and sign Carlson they look like contenders to me if the remaining young core improves. Worth taking the shot.

jmho.

[Austinfan]

Larkin isn't a difference maker.
ES scoring last five years: 55, 47, 41, 43, 42.
That's solid, but his peak years were 25-28, slipped a little last year. And he's not a Selke candidate.
Even if he rebounds, we're talking a top 2C, not a top 20 center. And maybe worse at 32-33.
Dvorak had 45 ES points last season, and he wasn't a needle mover for this team (no, I don't expect him to repeat, I see him as a 3C over most of his contract).

If you could pick up Larkin on the cheap his cap is no issue, but if we're talking 1st rd pick plus top 6 young starting forward, pass. Given the expected bidding war, I think Briere will make a phone call, listen and move on.

[zambonir]

Well, you're not wrong that he's closer to a 2C on a true contender. And about the bidding war.

But given the state of the Flyers PP, not sure it's useful (and also misleading) to only focus on his ES production, even if that's analytically valid. 30 goals for five straight seasons. Flyers have only had five players score 30 goals (two of them twice) between 2012 and now.

[Austinfan]

Yeah, but that's why you want to wait and see.
If Michkov gets into shape, Martone a full season, Bump and Barkey, that's a lot of potential firepower.
When you look at the Flyer age profile next season:
Couts (35), Dvorak (30), TK (29)
Cates, Tippett (26), Zegras (25), Foerster (24)
Michkov (22), Martone (20), Bump (23), Barkey (21), Grenbenkin (23)
Jett (20), Nesbitt (19), Berglund (20), Knuble (22)

Sanheim (30), York (26), Drysdale (24), Andrae (24), Jiricek (23), Bonk (21), Murchison (23), McDonald (24)
Gill (20), Amico (19)
Risto (32), Seeler (33) - gone at some point

Only a handful of players over 26, just enough veteran depth for a young team.
If I'm Briere, I'm looking for NHL ready in the 22-27 year old range that can grow with this group.