The '25-'26 Philadelphia Flyers thread

[phillychuck]

Cates has been very good on defense, but offense has been lacking. It’s not a great playoff run for your young guys when Coots is your best player and won’t be here much longer... Martone and Michkov have not been factors since early in the Penguins series.

[zambonir]

Everybody's offense has been lacking. Tippett, Zegras, TK, Michkov, Martone, Foerster (and three of those players are known to be hurt, or were). But Cates was one of the more productive offensive players in the second half (as was Michkov).

And we still got four full seasons of Couturier to go, hopefully he's got more left than anyone thought two months ago or a year ago.

At the same time, the stark reality of the Flyers being a team with four third-line centers has certainly shown itself. And now they are what, a team with two third-line centers and two wings playing center?

[bigegypt0417]

Another article which hints that the NHL may already be prepared to award the 27 pick to the flyers.

Leafs are going to have some trouble adding talent.

Flyers vs. Bruins: Who gets the Maple Leafs’ next two first-round draft picks?

[zambonir]

Yeah it seems pretty clear the language in the Flyers trade not only puts it ahead of the Bruins trade, but removes the Top 10 condition because of the Bruins trade in which case it should already be done.

Also, the Boston trade couldn't have existed if the Flyers trade wasn't made first (since one of the Flyers' picks went acquired with Laughton went to the Bruins). I guess that doesn't change the fact that the language allowed for theoretical/unknown future trades though.

[bigegypt0417]

If that pick lands in the lottery it will be in a draft that looks like it's pretty stacked at the top of the board. The big prize looks to be Landon DuPont who they are calling a generational defensive prospect.

Doubt the leafs are that bad but the top 10 seems really good.

[xogfog]

I guess it depends if they trade Matthews.

[zambonir]

Even if they trade Matthews there's no indication ownership is interested in a rebuild, and with no first-round pick in '27 or '28 they almost can't anyway. They can't win a Matthews trade, but whether it's MacKinnon and Matthews or MacKinnon plus what they get for Matthews, they are going to be better than they were this year, there will be NHL players coming back in the possible trade.

But maybe they don't make the playoffs still, in which case they're at least in the lottery.

Unless, of course, Matthews is on the Flyers, in which case the Leafs are getting that pick back anyway

[bigegypt0417]

Matthews seems to hold the cards and he's looking to see the moves they make....not sure what they can do without draft assets.

[zambonir]

But he's only signed for two more seasons. And he's hurt. He also probably still believes in most of the roster from this last season, himself included, and would be playing with MacKinnon (presumably). If the Leafs chose the rebuild path they would unload several other players and he would surely want out, but it seems like they aren't going to. If he thinks the new GM is a clown, as many seem to, who knows?

Wonder what he thinks of Berube. Gossip seems to be that ownership intends to keep him (and also doesn't want to eat his contract).

[zambonir]

Tippett still out. Dvorak likely but game-time. I feel like the Flyers have the injuries of a team that's already played two or three playoff rounds (including the guys who have not actually missed a game), which in a way they have. The same intensity and string of must-win games that got them the playoff berth took a physical toll. Which is also the reward a team like Carolina gets for being that good.

[VoteForKalas]

Exactly right. Flyers have already achieved their goal which was make the playoffs.

To win a round was gravy especially vs the Pens and the Canes are a tough matchup with this version of the Flyers.

They need more offensive talent and a much better PP to compete.

[Austinfan]

The lack of depth caught up with them in game 3, with Cates and Tippett out.
Still, it took Anderson having his career year and some bad puck luck to lose this game.

The more important thing is Martone, Bump and Barkey showed well.
Zegras had a nice goal but also took the wrong man on the go ahead goal. He's a wing, not a center.

[LegoDoom]

To win a round was gravy especially vs the Pens

The Pens were a bad team that were lucky this year. The Flyers, statistically, have been unlucky (if you compare xGD vs GD). So, beating them is always nice, but it should have been expected.

Yes, the Flyers have hit some posts and had some good chances, but Tippett and Cates aren't worth 4 goals. (directed at AF)

[bigegypt0417]

I would imagine the flyers would want a ruling on that pick sooner than later as that seems like a pretty big asset if it's an unprotected pick...

[zambonir]

Yeah if they rule it's already lost the protection it has a very different value than if it is still contingent on the 2027 lottery. Cynically I would say the league might wait. My first thought is I don't really see how there could be any other interpretation than it being unprotected and the Flyers' pick. But I guess the legalese would be that Toronto has not actually traded its 2028 pick yet, and won't officially do so until next year, so the protection can't actually be removed until that happens.

Philadelphia trades Scott Laughton, Philadelphia’s 4th rnd pick in 2025 NHL Draft and Philadelphia’s 6th rnd pick in 2027 NHL Draft to Toronto in exchange for Nikita Grebenkin and Toronto’s 1st rnd pick in 2027 NHL Draft. If Toronto’s 1st rnd pick in 2027 NHL Draft is in Top 10, then Toronto has the option to retain such pick and instead transfer their 1st rnd pick in 2028 NHL Draft to Philadelphia. If Toronto trades their own 2028 1st rnd pick (in a subsequent trade) prior to the 2027 NHL Draft, then the condition on 2027 pick is removed and Toronto’s own 2027 1st rnd pick shall transfer to Philadelphia. Philadelphia agrees to retain 50% of Laughton’s SPC as part of a Retained Salary Transaction (03/07/25)

Toronto trades Fraser Minten, Philadelphia’s 4th rnd pick in 2025 NHL Draft (previously acquired by Toronto) and Toronto’s 1st rnd pick in 2026 NHL Draft (conditional) to Boston in exchange for Brandon Carlo. In the event Toronto transfers their 1st rnd pick in 2026 NHL Draft to Chicago (pursuant to an earlier trade) or Toronto’s 1st rnd pick in 2026 NHL Draft is a top 5 pick, then Toronto will instead transfer their own 1st rnd pick in either the 2027 or 2028 NHL Draft to Boston (whichever of those picks is not transferred to Philadelphia pursuant to an earlier trade). Boston agrees to retain 15% of Carlo’s SPC as part of a Retained Salary Transaction

[LegoDoom]

They are both conditional trades. Technically, if Toronto has a top 10 pick next year, then Boston can get their 2027 1st and the Flyers would get the 2028 1st.

Honestly, it kind of sounds like the original trade stands and Boston is the one that will benefit from this.

[zambonir]

Technically, if Toronto's pick is Top 10, they would have gotten to keep it. But then they made the Boston trade, and the 2026 pick wound up being protected, which means they don't get to keep that pick or '28. The Leafs know they are losing both of the picks, it's just a question of whether they get to decide who gets them or if it's definitely the Flyers. I don't think Boston has any claim that doesn't involve Toronto choosing to send them that pick. According to all the reporting so far, the league will end up giving it to the Flyers, and the Flyers' position is its theirs. Just a question of when the league rules on it.

[LegoDoom]

Technically, if Toronto's pick is Top 10, they would have gotten to keep it. But then they made the Boston trade, and the 2026 pick wound up being protected, which means they don't get to keep that pick or '28.

Right, but read the conditions of the Boston trade. Boston gets the 27 or 28 pick depending on the condition with the Flyers. If Toronto is in the top 10, then the Flyers get the 28 pick. So the condition in the Flyers trade is moot. Technically they traded their 28 pick, but it was to the Flyers. And then Boston gets the 27 pick because of the result of the Flyers trade.

Obviously it's up to interpretation.

[zambonir]

I still think the interesting loophole is that the Boston trade could not have been made without the Philly trade, therefore the Philly trade takes precedence no matter what.

And the Boston condition says they get either the '27 or '28 pursuant to the Phily trade. The only condition that originally kicked it to '28 for the Flyers is the Top 10 protection, not subsequent conditional trades.

Whatever happens I guess I'm still not sure they'll resolve it this year. The only way you can say it's all a done deal know is if you interpret the protection as being gone. If it's not gone nothing can happen until next May.

[LegoDoom]

The only condition that originally kicked it to '28 for the Flyers is the Top 10 protection, not subsequent conditional trades.

But that is still happening. The Boston trade doesn't affect the Flyers condition. If it's a top 10 pick, then the Flyers get the 28 pick and Boston gets 27. If not, then the Flyers get 27 and Boston gets 28.

The only issue here is if you consider Toronto is trading the 28 pick if it ends up with the Flyers. And in that case, you could make an argument that it was already part of the Flyers trade and cancels out that part of the condition.

Again, that's just how it reads to me. And is a very smart way to get max value out of two conditional trades if it was intentional.