The '25-'26 Philadelphia Flyers thread

[zambonir]

I wouldn't say he was less involved. He admitted to having oral sex with her with the other guys in the room.

Nobody has been nor currently is blackballed, unless Bettman does opt for supplemental discipline. They all took voluntary leaves of absences, and now get to enjoy unrestricted free agency. Question is, were the teams quietly told not to qualify these guys, did they do it out of simple risk management or fear that they were guilty, or did they just decide they didn't want them in their organizations regardless.

[zambonir]

The judge is a woman.

[Pat_Burrell]

I had been following along on The Athletic for past few months and based on what was written, I couldn’t see how these players would be convicted. Did they degrade her? Sure, but is that a crime? From all accounts she wanted to hang with the players and had several opportunities to leave and end it and she kept going along. Maybe it was cool to be in a room of young players, many of which would go to the nhl one day. Maybe it went much further than she ever anticipated and maybe she no longer was enjoying what they were doing with her and to her, but she decided to just roll with it, and only after the fact decided she didn’t enjoy it and felt they went too far. Maybe when she realized none of them ever saw her as anything more than a good time, she felt a strong sense of resentment. That in of itself isn’t a crime and if anything more happened, she clearly wasn’t able to present that and the judge did not find her to be credible.

[zambonir]

What the path back to the NHL looks like for Carter Hart, other Hockey Canada...

Technically this means the players have now been suspended for the first time, since they all took so-called "voluntary leave" and simply weren't under contract over the past two seasons.

All five players are considered NHL unrestricted free agents after not receiving qualifying offers from their former teams upon the expiry of their previous contracts, but a league source told The Athletic on Thursday that the NHL will review the judge’s ruling and complete its own internal process before the players are eligible to sign contracts. There is no timetable for how long that may take.

“The allegations made in this case, even if not determined to have been criminal, were very disturbing and the behavior at issue was unacceptable,” the league said in a statement Thursday. “We will be reviewing and considering the judge’s findings. While we conduct that analysis and determine next steps, the players charged in this case are ineligible to play in the league.”

The NHL Players’ Association took issue with that approach, saying in its own statement, “Dillon Dube, Cal Foote, Alex Formenton, Carter Hart, and Michael McLeod were acquitted of all charges by Justice Carroccia of the Ontario Superior Court. After missing more than a full season of their respective NHL careers, they should now have the opportunity to return to work. The NHL’s declaration that the players are ‘ineligible’ to play pending its further analysis of the court’s findings is inconsistent with the discipline procedures set forth in the CBA. We are addressing this dispute with the league and will have no further comment at this time.​”

[snip]

The collective bargaining agreement affords NHL commissioner Gary Bettman considerable power to punish players for off-ice conduct deemed harmful to the league. That includes actions that don’t result in criminal convictions. Article 18-A grants Bettman the ability to expel, suspend, fine or even cancel the contracts of players following a league investigation and hearing (where the player and NHL Players’ Association are permitted to present evidence, testimony and argument in the player’s defense).

[VoteForKalas]

The last paragraph is key; the union should push the issue on the player's behalf, but like many sports the commish has a substantial amount of authority and discretion on disciplinary decisions.

This was a large black eye for the NHL and I would not be surprised if they was some type of punishment.

[zambonir]

Yeah. It's more about the timing. Seems unlikely to be resolved by the start of this season, not to mention we won't know if case is on appeal until late August. The league already did its own investigation in the wake of the civil suit and Hockey Canada's settlement [and these players remain suspended by HC too].

The question is can they fast-track any additional process because of the criminal case, and the exculpatory outcome. I think the judge's strong statements from the bench may work in the players' favor; at the same time, if you're Bettman and you just read the court transcripts I think you find plenty of reason to still issue discipline and the players may actually want to get more of a proper hearing from the league to mount more of a defense internally.

For me the most compelling argument against the NHL being too harsh is that all of these events happened before any of these players played a single game in the NHL, even if they'd been drafted and signed in most cases. As someone who thinks the legal system rarely serves victims of sexual assault well, and also thinks that hockey culture still has a long way to go, it would not bother me if they feel they need to make an example of them to some extent, but it's definitely not the same as if these incidents had occurred when they were NHL players.

Of course, had that been the case, it probably would have gone to trial the first time.

[bigegypt0417]

Flyers' Jack Berglund Reaching New Heights at World Junior Summer Showcase

[Squire]

We could use some pop up guys who exceed expectations. This is good.

[Squire]

Sweden beat Canada this morning 8-4. Berglund had 3 assists.

[flyers19rw]

The Flyers might have something here with Berglund. He’s already played well against adults in the SHL.

[Austinfan]

People still think Flyers have a fixation on size, even with Briere as GM (undersized forward who bounced between AHL and NHL until he won a job, then one of the best PO scorers in NHL history) and Sharp (another guy who bounced around until he got to start in Chicago).

I don't know if they know what they're doing, either they're smarter than the average bear or too smart for their own good.

But:
1) they've revamped the development staff, Briere did this gradually, same with scouting, but he's got his people in place now.
2) they have a good track record of improving skating, Foerster, Cates, Brink, et al. Not everyone, Strome went from awful to bad and is a career AHL guy, Ginning never miproved. But enough to think they might be able to recognize skating flaws that can be fixed.
3) they have a good track record of teaching fundamentals at LHV, most of the call-ups held their own relative to their raw talent.

Berglund struggled with injuries last season and was bounced around SHL to Swedish Juniors to Allsvenskan. Should have spent the whole year in Allsvenskan at 18. But he's similar to the players they drafted this year, big, some skating issues but good hands, work ethic, motor. Enough skill that if you fix the skating issues you might have a steal.

Gill, Nesbitt fit that mold. They're betting that as these kids fill out their bodies (especially lower body) and get skating coaching, they'll become more explosive skaters that'll allow them to use their size and skill.

The Flyers are faster than average (see Edge) but also smaller than average, and that has shown up finishing plays, they have few forwards who can create havoc in front of the net and the hands to exploit that havoc. Briere likes his smaller players to go to the dirty areas, but guys like TK, Barkey and Brink are always going to be limited there due to size. As Florida showed, physical forwards who go to the net create problems for defense. Michkov as he fills out will be able to anchor, but you don't want him lost in traffic. Guys like Foerster, Nesbitt, Murtaugh et al are built for that role.

[xogfog]

Arbitrator rules in favor of the Flyers in the Ryan Johansen grievance.

[zambonir]

Johansen's agent also Gauthier's agent, so a nice win on both counts.

[flyers19rw]

Kind of an empty victory for the Flyers. They had to carry this guy in the roster all season with cap implications. Now they do save some cash back from last season but it doesn’t do much good at this point.

[Austinfan]

I think they had cap relief last year, had they lost, it might have counted against this year's cap.

[zambonir]

Yeah he did not count against the cap and wasn't on the roster in any way because his contract had been terminated, that was the whole point of the dispute. Had the Flyers lost the arbitration they would have both owed him the money and might have faced some kinds of cap consequence retroactively, possibly even affecting this season (or some kind of fine). But the way things went last year by the deadline they did have the space in case the arbitration had been resolved more quickly, and against them.

Carrying his salary was the price they paid to get that first in the Walker deal so only having to do it in '23 still a big win. I just don't entirely understand why there aren't consequences for the Avs.

[flyers19rw]

JMO but Kurt Overhardt seems like a slime ball of an agent. This Johansson situation was clearly avoidable. A legitimate agent would have told the player to grit his teeth and put up with Tortorella/the Flyers and earn the $4M. Supporting Johansson’s dance around probably will result in the player losing his money and most likely forfeiting any future chance of playing in the NHL.
It’s a similar situation with KO’s handling of Gauthier. It was “legal” but underhanded. Teams won’t forget that when dealing with Gauthier in the future. Also teams will pass on dealing with KO clients like Buium found out in the ‘24 draft which has cost him money.
Agents sneaking around to find loopholes to exploit in CBAs might be successful on occasion but in the long run I don’t know how much they really gain for their clients.

[zambonir]

It seems like it was all related, and the Flyers not necessarily blameless, i.e. they saw a chance to stick it to Overhart a little [and we still don't really know what either side really did re: Gauthier]. And Johansson neither wanted to report to the AHL nor get stuck playing there for all of 2024-2025. So yeah, he neither played nor earned a dime last year, his choice, except he was hoping to get the $ for free by winning the arbitration. And I guess the reason the Avs have no blame is because the arbitrator has essentially ruled that there was no injury.

I still don't blame Gauthier for choosing to exercise his rights as a drafted player. It's a drastic step, but it happens. It did not hurt Kevin Hayes or Adam Fox or ahem, Eric Lindros.

[Austinfan]

Johansson is a slime ball, Peterson went to LHV and earned his $5M, He had a chance to win a job and didn't do so, but didn't sulk either.
Johansson could have tried to win a job and the Flyers would have happily traded him if he showed the league he could still play.
At worst, he'd ride buses in the AHL for $4m, then retire. Poor baby.

[bigegypt0417]

Some good news it seems...

Flyers reportedly get good news on Foerster offseason injury