Phils 2017 Catching Situation/Options (was about Ellis non-signing)

[allentown]

I don't think there is any particular reason why a backup catcher has to be good with the glove/bad with the bat. Backup catchers tend to be older catchers who are no longer good enough to be starters... really who are far enough beyond being good enough to be starters that they are relatively cheap. It is really the total value offense/defense/running and the cost which count. Knapp will be cheap. Once he gets his feet wet, he should provide a plus combination of offense/defense/running/cost compared to your typical backup catcher.

[Squire]

Got to go with Knapp as the backup. We've got to learn about some of these guys at the major league level. On the OF front I'm still kinda hoping we go with an OF of Herrera-Quinn-Altherr and make Kendrick the 2B.

[Lawman]

I wonder if it makes sense to have Knapp dedicate himself to two pitchers as their personal catcher? This way he gets two starts/week and doesn't linger on the bench?

[tom81]

And you think Mackanin is going to have is relatively veteran catcher only catch 3 out of 5 games when Pete is trying to win? I don't see it happening.

[flyers19rw]

If Mackanin is going to push for winning versus player development, he has to go. In all fairness, the best that the Phillies can hope for this season is .500 play. We phans would like to see them come out of nowhere and be in the POs but that is wistful dreaming more than anything else. Its time to take the training wheels off of some of the prospects and see whether or not they can be MLBers. Playing Knapp, Quinn and the like (maybe JPC in late July) is where we are now. Most likely they will need nurturing since they will fail from time to time. I really don't want to see them yanked out of the lineup for a "learning experience" when that happens.
Perhaps Klentak/MacPhail need to grant Mackanin an extension for '18 so that he feels that he can get off the win or be canned podium. Either that or fire him now and put in place a manager who can live with the failures of growing young players.

[allentown]

I whole-heartedly agree. In an effective organization, the manager needs to understand that his most important responsibility is supporting the organizational strategic plan. He needs to know that if he puts personal resume padding, cathartic bleating to his favorite media buds, or managing as if his .450 team is in the deciding game of the WS, that he will be replaced. At this point in the Phillies rebuild, W-L record is not the primary metric on which a manager should be judged. Player development, keeping the pitchers healthy, winnowing out the guys who will make it from the guys who won't, and building toward a cohesive future winning team are all more important. A manager who insists on W-L as the yardstick is more interested in padding his resume to get his next job than he is in improving the Phillies organizational strength. That doesn't mean the manager shouldn't try hard to win games -- it means he must do so within the constraints of the organizational strategy: develop the promising young guys, spread out the innings in the pen so you don't burn out the best guys, and give hitters the growth experience they need batting against same-hand pitchers and relief pitchers the growth opportunities to face opposite-hand hitters. The strategic approach must be set by the higher ups. When we didn't spend big $ this off-season, this was the evidence that total games won is not the primary metric for measuring the success of the up-coming season.

[zambonir]

Well, Mackanin hasn't said anything, Tom81 (who would also like to win this year) did. Klentak seems to want another OF bat just as much as his manager does. And while the manager should always decide who plays, there is nothing wrong, especially at the beginning of the year, with the GM setting a few ground rules (though, if a GM can tell you to play people for development reasons, he can also tell you to play his failing expensive free agents).

I think Mackanin will get the extension 'cause it's only money and the lame-duck thing does become a distraction. But he surely has to know - and if not Klentak needs to tell him - that his chances of being here in 2018 are more related to Allentown's criteria than W-L.

Anyway, 40% of the games is 65 games. Assuming perfect health for both catchers Knapp won't play that many, but he'll play 45-50. No big deal, and no reason to limit Rupp to 100 in just his second season as the starter (arguably his first as the clear-cut starter). And if Mackanin (and Klentak) were really all about winning now they might not even be sticking with Rupp (based on last year's various criticisms of him).