Phillies News and Discussion 2025 Season

[zambonir]

There's an argument for both of your perspectives I think. In the short term, yeah, it is just one game, hopefully his struggles earlier this season were also due to the first injury, and he's a proven postseason pitcher which we need more than ever with Wheeler down.

But at the same time, it's true he has been trending down somewhat - stuff, adjusting to the pitcher timer, pitching with men on base, home runs. And now this season he's lost his single biggest atttribute - innings and durability. Doesn't mean he won't get back that too, but who knows.

I wouldn't say it was worse than the Howard deal because Howard got his deal two years early and was already cooked when the extension started. Nola was on the open market, and he did already give us a very good season last year (3.7 WAR). And if it turns out he's only an overpaid 4th or 5th starter for us for the next 3 years, that doesn't really bother me. He gave us a bargain on the last contract. Same if he's unpitchable in Year 6 and 7 because that's the price of doing business. What we can't have is him being unpitchable from '26-'28.

[flyers19rw]

It’s a shame to see the rotation start to get some cracks in its base. Painter needs to be as good as advertised an able to perform next year. Sanchez looks to be the deal. Resign Suarez and extend Luzardo and things will work out. Hope that Nola and Wheeler can pull off what Walker has done this year and the Phillies will be fine.
What ails the Phillies SP is a league wide issue. The arms do not hold up throwing at this velocity and spin rates. Most club’s rotations are a wreck right now. If anyone thinks that the Phillies are in trouble look around the league. The Braves do not have a single starter from their opening day rotation that is not on the IL.
Velocity is tearing up arms but so is spin rate. The latter can do as much damage as the former. Back in the day when I was in LL, I was ejected from a game for throwing a knuckle curve because I was spinning the ball. The umpire took me aside and told me not to do that at my age because I would damage my elbow. He was right. Spin plays havoc with the shoulder but mostly on the elbow. It catches up with the best of pitchers.

[dcsman]

When I first heard about Wheeler I was thinking, “okay, good timing. Give him the drugs and he should be back by the playoffs.” However, after doing a little bit more research it’s pretty clear that he’s very likely done for the year and his career is in serious jeopardy. Such a shame for him, his family, and the Phillies. This might have been his Cy Young year too.

[zambonir]

I think it's more likely than not that his career will be fine but yeah he's probably not pitching this year and it could be a learning curve coming back from it all at this age too.

Flyers is also right though. Pitching is a mess all over. We've been very lucky, and as flawed or inconsisten as nearly everyone besides Wheeler and Sanchez is, their value is considerable.

[phillychuck]

Based on Nola’s AAA outings I think he will be fine. We need him given Wheeler’s situation. We also could use a Suarez bounce-back. There is literally no one in AAA right now I’d be happy to see in a spot-start (maybe Painter, but I’d worry about him pushing too hard).

[zambonir]

Thomson noted Nola hadn't actually pitched on four days rest during his rehab. In retrospect maybe he should have, or shouldn't have been slotted ahead of Ranger, but obviously Ranger has own issues and they had no idea the Wheeler news was coming.

The sky might be falling as far as a championship parade but I don't really think it is as far as the stretch run for the NL East playoff seeding. They still won 95 games and the division last year with the dreck they kept throwing out there as a #5. They can certainly get by without a sixth starter, or live with whatever spot starts or bullpen games they have to do two or three times if it is really necessary (for a doubleheader or to rest the other guys).

I guess the ironic good news is Wheeler is no longer someone they need to buy rest for with a six-man.

[Callison]

Really disappointed for Wheeler who was headed for glory somewhere when healthy. Very serious condition, recurrent in athletes including several pitchers who regained their previous ability, subject to a variety of treatments. No way to tell how bad things are or are not yet. No panic in the reaction, so that measures the urgency. Good luck, Zack.

The Phils will likely stick to the slow track Painter is on but with only some 6 weeks of the season left, it seems time to see what he can do.

[EDmuch]

It still seems highly likely that we will make playoffs but that we will not have that strong bullet proof starting rotation. The playoffs will probably come down to whether we have enough hitters getting hot at the right time.

[zambonir]

It was probably going to come down to that anyway. None of the teams in the NLCS or ALCS last year had deep pitching, and the Phillies lost those last two games with Nola (though he was not at his best) and Suarez in 2023 because of the offense (though they might have lost sooner without Wheeler).

This year, especially, you can get as far as the NLCS with only three starters (since the NL side has more off days). And they could still have lost some Wheeler starts 3-2 or 2-1. Hopefully the bullpen is what holds up better this year since that is also what cost them a couple of games each of the last two post-seasons (which you can also say about every playoff team but one each year).

[David_Criss]

Strange how the Phillies had the best pitching rotation in MLB, but today Walker has been the best starter on the team during this recent stretch. Do they stick with the six-man idea and bring up Painter or do they go back to the 5-man rotation????

[phillychuck]

5-man. Painter is really not ready.

[andyb]

With the larger bullpen it should be easier to stick to 80-90 pitch outings also as sending that pitcher out for one extra inning is not really working lately.

[zambonir]

If they really think it's important to mitigate this upcoming stretch of games with only one off day or there's a doubleheader they can just turn to Rangel or a bullpen game. I would say that it might be fine to give Painter a taste but it seems like a lot of the times when he's struggled the issue has been overthrowing or trying to do too much?

Cabrera? McGarry?

But seriously, they'll be fine. If Ranger's issues are serious enough that he can't be in a five-man rotation he probably should go on the IL himself. That would make things tougher. But the main reason for a six-man rotation was to rest Wheeler and Ranger and half of that equation is gone now. Shorter outings like Andy says, especially once 9/1 hits. Bullpen also gets Alvarado back tomorrow.

[andyb]

If they wanted a spot start before the rosters expand I would probably just try to get 4-5 innings out of Rangel. Cabrera has been pitching well but that is AA. Rangel has been decent in the majors this year. Slight down side is that the game would probably be in the Mets series. Off day this week so the 6th game after that would be the last game of the Mets series on the 27th (and they need to wait till the 25th to recall Rangel anyway).

Of course they would need a roster spot to do that. They need a move for Alvarado tomorrow already (still Lazar?) but the next one would be Ross or Romano most likely. If they want both of them in September plus Lazar then they probably decide against the bullpen game.

[zambonir]

Probably Ranger's performance tonight, as well as Nola's, will tell the tale. But they certainly aren't ruling out Painter. I think it's more likely to be because of a double-header. After Thursday they also get that weird off-day in the Brewers series.

It's weird that we have four games coming against the Braves and it's more like facing the Nats than the Mets, divison-wise. Will still be a big series (national TV on Sunday too).

[andyb]

Why does that off day in the Brewers series exist? Tuesday off day in a Monday-Thursday 4-day stretch. Is the stadium rented for some concert?

[LegoDoom]

5-man. Painter is really not ready.

I don't know if he is or not, but I don't think it's out of the question given Rob's remarks about it's time for him to be brought up.

[zambonir]

I assumed it was a quirk of wanting to have a game on the holiday, as we've seen the Phillies be off on some of those.

That is basically it, along with CBA/off-day rules. For whatever reason the Brewers did not want to take the off-day Thursday, though I don't think anything would have stopped either team from doing so (as far as travel etc.)

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2025/08/07/with-a-september-quirk-what-to-know-about-milwaukee-brewers-schedule/85543345007/

[zambonir]

Definitely not out of the question. They could bring him up for just 1-2 starts, keep him up if it goes well, or just end his season if it doesn't. I don't think they were ever looking to run a six-man for very long, it was possibly going to be as little as this one turn before Wheeler's injury.

[andyb]

That is just silly. Phillies should have protested to get the off day on Thursday. I guess it is the middle of the road trip so it would not have been a day at home, but still. It forces them to get an evening flight out of Milwaukee Thursday night and our luck with those flights is not great lately.