Phillies 2018 Season News/Notes/Discussion

[teabag259]

Crawford sent to Lehigh Valley. Neris recalled.

[Lawman]

Kingery over Crawford? Not 100% sure I get it

[EastFallowfield]

Guessing it's the lefty vs righty thing. Plus they think Kingery can play outfield in a pinch maybe?

[andyb]

With Eflin optioned we should be down to a 4-man bench with Bour but have a 9-man bullpen.

Assume this is only for a game or two and maybe a pitcher is sent out for Ramos when he comes up instead of sending Knapp down. Does not make much difference in the grand scheme of things as to whether it was Crawford or Kingery. Crawford actually needs the ABs more while Kingery needs the AAA development more.

One could argue that getting Crawford right might pay more dividends in September when they are both up than getting Kingery more experience. Kingery has had lots of ABs this year while Crawford has not.

[VoteForKalas]

I did not want to think it, but now I suspect the Phillies dogged refusal to admit Kingery needs more AAA time is PR related.

Hopefully, it will not impact Kingery long term and backfire on the team

[zambonir]

They still have to call up a starting pitcher for Thursday.'

Kind of hard to disagree about the PR thing but there is also the repeated indication that, right or wrong, the Phillies actually think Scott Kingery is a better shortstop (and player) than J.P. Crawford.

[Lawman]

Phillies actually think Scott Kingery is a better shortstop (and player) than J.P. Crawford

Better or more versatile?

[andyb]

They do get a 26th man for Thursday so assume that is Suarez with a quick demotion. They could also be cute with the bullpen and keep an extra pitcher for game 1 and then swap Ramos in to catch game 2.

I just would not be shocked if they finesse their way into keeping a 3rd catcher for 2 weeks given the uncertainty of how much they can push Ramos early. At the most he'll play every other day the first week. They also like Knapp as a switch pinch hitter with a bit of power, though with Bour/Santana they will have one more power hitter off the bench anyway.

On Crawford vs Kingery it is hard to know what they think. I know there was one quote saying they thought he was better at SS. But they also could be justifying that move by having Crawford play 3B where they think he is much better than Kingery because of his arm. I still go with the years of evidence and scouting reports of Crawford being better at SS. Just have no idea what the Phillies think or whether the Phillies are right or wrong. Crawford DOES need playing time more and Kingery DOES play the OF better, so that reasoning really makes the most sense for 2 weeks for a combined 1-2 starts a week that are likely in the near future.

[David_Criss]

Kingery is better IMO. I wish he had been playing everyday 2B at AAA this year, but Florimon, Crawford injuries and Galvis trade didn't let that happen. Crawford was awful in his rehab at A ball and that was after not exactly tearing the cover off the ball while with the Phillies earlier his year. Hopefully Crawford goes down and finds his timing and groove that made him a number one draft pick.

Neris also looks to have regained his 2017 form, so good to see him back.

[zambonir]

But Eflin is the 26th man.

I don't know that Kingery is more versatile really. Crawford could play any OF position, as well as 3B and 2B. It's just that in theory Kingery's bat plays better at those positions. In practice, no. He's a better pinch-runner, certainly.

The reality is they will probably use Kingery as a defensive replacement for Cabrera, and they prefer him to Crawford there just like they preferred him to Crawford as the starting SS in June. But I agree that Kingery may as well just continue semi-lost season, he's part of that clubhouse, Crawford's not been and the ABs couldn't hurt. He was ripping it up walks-wise when he came back last time but since he's not going to play this time...

[andyb]

Crawford has never played the OF. Obviously he could physically. I don't think they have had him work out there either. Actually checked Cabrera too and he has never played the OF. Kingery has played 7 major league games there (none in the minors though some in the Spring).

I think Kingery does give them a bit more flexibility. Also have Quinn there in the infield in an emergency though with Cabrera I can't imagine they would need him much there unless a game went deep into extras and they needed a particular double switch.

[andyb]

But Eflin is the 26th man

And on the roster right now they have 4 starters, 9 relievers, 8 position starters and a 4 man bench including Bour.

Eflin is the 26th man. Ramos comes up for the 9th reliever giving them 3 catchers. When Eflin has to come on the 25-man roster again (the 22nd) they would need to send one player down (either the 5th bench player or go with 7 relievers). How Ramos plays might dictate whether they use an option on Knapp absent any injuries.

[LoneStarPhan]

Clearly Crawford need regular playing time but then so does Kingery. Kingery got the playing time at the ML level, but fell short of acceptable performance. He would benefit with a couple hundred more at bats at AAA, but now is languishing on the ML bench. As to any PR aspect, not sure that is a factor. Does seeing Kingery continuing to fail at the ML level give the Phillies a PR boost? I don't see it. Frankly, I don't know which of the two has the brightest ML future. I hope both have a bright future, but right now, both could use more time at AAA.

[zambonir]

And on the roster right now they have 4 starters, 9 relievers, 8 position starters and a 4 man bench including Bour.

Eflin is the 26th man. Ramos comes up for the 9th reliever giving them 3 catchers. When Eflin has to come on the 25-man roster again (the 22nd) they would need to send one player down (either the 5th bench player or go with 7 relievers). How Ramos plays might dictate whether they use an option on Knapp absent any injuries.

Right but they still need the spot starter too. So if they intend to call up Wilson Ramos tomorrow or Thursday they would be down to seven relievers, as a reliever also has to go down for Suarez (or whomever).

I suppose they could also call Wilson Ramos up in between the two games, do it that way. Or a reliever. One assumes E. Ramos comes back up next, bullpen-wise.

So I'd say in the end, dumping Knapp for two weeks seems more likely. And the game they played with Eflin certainly didn't amount to much. Hindsight, though.

[allentown]

Kingery over Crawford? Not 100% sure I get i

Crawford may not be 100% and certainly wasn't setting the world on fire during his rehab, although as I recall, his last game was good. I think, although some posters are determined to ignore the signs, that the Phillies organization has significantly soured on Crawford. I don't think he is seen as the starting SS going forward. They hope for Machado, but I think if they don't get Kingery and don't get a great offer for Cesar Hernandez, that Kingery is next season's SS and Crawford is UT IF. For some reason they seem really high on Kingery and not so on Crawford. One can say "it's the contract", but they didn't need to give Kingery that contract. That sort of contract is really only given to guys who have done more than Kingery did in the minors and those deals are often foolish flops in retrospect.

[zambonir]

For sure, I didn't want to believe it but it appears to be the case. A lot turns on Hernandez though. If they don't get Machado and have a decent offer for Cesar the Kingery/Crawford middle IF we all expected could still happen. Of course they could also re-sign Asdrubal and use all three of those players at both positions (and 3B too).

I do think the optics of Kingery going 0-4 every day or being on the bench is "dog bites man" at this point, but demoting him would actually be a headline, and a day's worth of talk radio. That's where the PR comes in. But as we're already covering, I think it's less optics than a genuine souring on Crawford, odd as it seems to judge him solely on six weeks (and really just one bad fielding month at SS) while not really judging Kingery at all when it comes to his awful hitting for a much longer period.

[EDmuch]

"Ripping it up walks wise" is oxymoronic.

[zambonir]

Not making outs is an excellent quality to have IMO. You can absolutely KILL at not making outs.

We know what you think of OBP but clearly this front office feels otherwise (just look at our clean-up hitter), which is why their seeming coolness towards Crawford is a bit puzzling. I'm not sure it's permanent though. And if Kingery can actually turn into a speedy .300-hitting 20/20 guy, preferring him at SS may end up being correct (if they're also keeping Hernandez).

But none of this really matters right now when it's about a bench player and two weeks of the season. I'm much more interested to see how Neris does! If they really fixed his mechanics that's a bigger addition than any trade would have been. And if they didn't, a few bad losses would be brutal.

[teabag259]

Like someone mentioned...in Crawford’s rehab games in CLR I only recall like 1 base hit in a week of games. Maybe they simply want him to have some more ABs.

[EDmuch]

Actually hitting the ball when u swing can be even better.