Discussion

zambonir 2018-05-15 22:18:13 UTC #382

Even if the Mariners have a weak system I assume "the top 2 prospects" (emphasis mine) would be a good trade. And also one Seattle wouldn't make. My guess is they look for someone shorter-term/cheaper (in trade price), if they even do anything. He'll be back by the trade deadline and he was already maybe going to be out for two months anyway. A team that only needs a guy for 8 weeks to try and stay in the division race isn't going to buy something at the top of the market, especially when there will be plenty of other 2Bs available in July if it comes to it.

xogfog 2018-05-15 22:45:18 UTC #383

Maybe their top two would be good, but I think their top two are both position players. I'm also a bit gun shy about the Mariners, going back to the Cliff Lee trade

EDmuch 2018-05-15 22:48:23 UTC #384

By the trade deadline, the Mariners will be buried behind the Astros and the Angels. They can't afford to wait. I just think that the situation many wondered about, a potential contender with a serious injury at second base has now occurred. I don't see them moving Cesar either. He is too important to the current offense.

HopeSpringsEternal 2018-05-15 23:01:03 UTC #385

I think Dee Gordon will be their 2B-man for the next 80 games.

zambonir 2018-05-15 23:20:43 UTC #386

I saw a headline saying Gordon won't move but maybe that was only about the injury not the suspension.

I get the logic of being aggressive but I don't think the Mariners will be buried. Think back to when the Phillies replaced Utley (once with Iguchi and once with Galvis). Eric Bruntlett started 30 games for the 2008 Phillies when Rollins got hurt. Teams can hang in there without one star. And Hernandez still has more value to a team that might want him going forward (though Cano's no youngster. Plus, apparently he takes PEDs ).

Thing is, they are probably not going to win the division anyway, and they will remain in the wild card race, so how much of your future do you mortgage for 10 weeks of better baseball? Not much IMO. I've already read something that says they are more likely to try and get pitching.

More to the point, as has been noted, no way you trade Cesar now. That's an off-season move, once you've learned more about Kingery, Crawford, Franco and the free agent situation. Unless they could trade Cesar and acquire Machado on the same day.

tom81 2018-05-15 23:25:54 UTC #387

zambonir 2018-05-15 23:32:26 UTC #388

Well, we've got a lot of CFs.

tom81 2018-05-15 23:32:58 UTC #389

This stat shows perhaps one of the best results of the new analytic approach.

zambonir 2018-05-16 01:42:29 UTC #390

I forgot that Cano will also be banned from the postseason. That could be another reason to upgrade sooner rather than later. But it could also be another reason to just wave the flag, especially if their system is as poor as people say.

Klentak certainly knows their GM.

David_Criss 2018-05-16 03:41:05 UTC #391

Thompson optioned and Leiter Jr. recalled. The Phillies need to decide what Thompson's future is. Is he a starter or a bullpen piece?

zambonir 2018-05-16 08:40:11 UTC #392

Oh I think he's definitely a bullpen piece, but he's down the depth chart. Behind Hutchison, behind Leiter Jr. for now: all long relievers who could also spot start. They may have to expose Hutchison too, with Morgan and Arano both ready.

phillychuck 2018-05-16 14:51:52 UTC #393

Thompson has been even less successful out of the pen than he has been as a starter. My guess is that he will bounce around a bit as a AAAA starter and might possibly figure things out and have a MLB career. It might take longer than we have for him to do it, though.

EDmuch 2018-05-16 15:35:49 UTC #394

I think Thompson's role with the Phils is as a trade piece at the deadline.

julio 2018-05-16 16:37:00 UTC #395

How much trade value do you think he has? He's a middle reliever who can't reliably hang on to a major-league bullpen job. Unless he's lights-out as a starter for Lehigh Valley for the next two months, he has about as much trade value as...I don't know...Colton Murray?

zambonir 2018-05-16 18:54:03 UTC #396

More of a throw-in than a piece maybe.

The Phillies say they still like his stuff as a reliever and he really hasn't been given the chance in the big leagues yet - only three appearances, all in completely out-of-hand games, and last year he did the yo-yo thing (in both roles). I don't know that he is any better or worse than Hutchison or Leiter Jr. but Hutchison can't be optioned and Leiter Jr. had more success last season. Unfortunately for him, "guy we call up when we have an extra roster spot for a few days" is going to be his role all year, barring injuries.

andyb 2018-05-16 19:09:38 UTC #397

Which is kind of the role for all our relievers with options that are on the 40-man roster that don't obviously belong on the roster. At the beginning of the season the relievers with guaranteed spots were Neris, Hunter, Neshek, and probably Garcia. Rios may have worked his way into that roster safety too. Ramos as well. Arano did but his health took that role away. Everyone else (all left-handers and middle relievers) are pretty fungible with the exception being the one guy without options (Hutchison) who is not good enough to have a spot guaranteed but IS good enough to not want to lose him for nothing.

zambonir 2018-05-16 19:39:15 UTC #398

I kinda think Hutchison has to go myself. Morgan and Arano are ready to come back. He's not clearly better than Leiter Jr. or Thompson, both of whom have the options. Plus once Eickhoff returns you're gonna have an extra starter (and already do in Lively) who can also fill that role.

It's also possible Leiter Jr. won't be up for very long, for now.

schillingfan 2018-05-16 19:43:32 UTC #399

Perhaps a failed prospect for a failed prospect over the winter? Who can forget the Curt Schilling trade with the Astros for Jason Grimsley?

andyb 2018-05-16 19:43:54 UTC #400

It is possible the development of Rios and Arano pushes Hutchison down the depth chart. If they like Leiter better and if they still have Thompson in the minors as a multi-inning reliever they might be OK risking the loss of Hutchison. Not sure on the rules but he may have the ability to become a free agent rather than being assigned to AAA if he clears waivers. I think it is 75% likely someone grabs him on waivers though since we are now at the time when lots of pitchers start to have injuries. It is interesting that all the Phillies injuries have been minor (some fake, some not). Other teams are putting players on the 60-day DL and would certainly have room for Hutchison.

And as for multi-inning relievers, we still have Drew Anderson lurking in AAA so it is not as if Thompson is the only backup to Leiter.

zambonir 2018-05-16 20:18:21 UTC #401

And there ya go