MLB (Non-Phils) News and Notes 2016

[Austinfan]

Well, they are the worst team in baseball.

And yes, I think they're stupid, he wasn't hitting that well in AA.
Although at 22, and with college experience, he's ahead of Crawford in terms of "readiness," he's done nothing to justify the move.
There is nothing to be gained by rushing him other than trying to sell tickets.

If they wanted to accelerate his development, a move to AAA ball for a month, then a cameo in September without the hoopla and pressure, would have been more sensible.

Fortunately, Klentak has more common sense.

[California_Dreamin]

Yasmany Tomas with 2 more home runs tonight and 6 RBI,giving him 25 home runs in 101 games so far with .310.523/833 numbers. He has hit 8 home runs in his last 10 games and is quickly becoming one of the best young right handed power hitters in baseball at 25.

[zambonir]

Yasmany Tomas with 2 more home runs tonight and 6 RBI,giving him 25 home runs in 101 games so far with .310.523/833 numbers. He has hit 8 home runs in his last 10 games and is quickly becoming one of the best young right handed power hitters in baseball at 25.

And a free agent after 2018

[California_Dreamin]

zambonir....I am assuming you are referring to the fact that the Phils can bid on him after 2018? Well, yes, they can. I hope that is what you mean because if you are still commenting on the fact that he is a free agent after 2018 and might have left the Phillies, my answer is, "I would have taken that chance because everyone gets to be a free agent eventually and that can't be the deterrent that keeps you from bidding on a player. It simply can't."

Besides, is there any team in baseball better able to open up the wallets in 2018 than the Phils, my guess is that with this current management and the comfort level that the Latin and Hispanic players have exhibited Tomas could have been retained. And I am not at all in agreement with those who continue to say that the Phils already have enough outfield prospects...the honest truth is we don't know that for sure.

What we know is Tomas has been in the league for 1.5 years and at 25 looks poised to become one of the major power hitters in baseball. It appears to me that he is just now figuring it out, 8 home runs in 10 games seems to indicate he is getting this game of baseball figured out. As for our many outfielders, I love Altherr but he is still unproven, Asche and Paredes are infielders masquerading as outfielders, the Phils are already suggesting they are open to trading Herrera [bad idea in my book], Williams is young but didn't take that big leap forward this year that we hoped for, Cozens is a prospect, a good one but still only a prospect, and the jury is still out on Goeddel.

Look, I will happily listen to those who suggest that the out after 4 years might cause a team to pause, though to me this is the ultimate in negative thinking because anyone can eventually leave if they want...Franco, Crawford, Herrera...but he was certainly worth what he got paid and what the Phils were talking about paying him.

As a huge Pat Gillick supporter, I admit that if he was the person who vetoed this deal, and those are the reports, I believe he made a big mistake. There are few things in baseball harder to find than big time power and Tomas seems to have it in spades and would have made the Phillies lineup a pretty impressive one in the middle of the batting order.

And I read few things more often on this site that concern money than that we should be spending it on free agent 23+Cuban players. Well, we had one practically begging us to sign him and we didn't. And it has hurt the development of the franchise.

[andyb]

CD - I think the Phillies made their decision largely on defense which is a higher priority for them now and in the last 2 years. And his defense is bad according to the advanced metrics. WAR this season of only +0.4 which is weighed down by -1.3 in the OF.

[California_Dreamin]

Greg Luzinski? Gary Mathews? Richie Allen? Pete Incaviglia? Pat Burrell? Yasmany Tomas? What they they all have in common? Left fielders who weren't great outfielders but mashed the ball and helped the Phillies win when they played. All except Tomas.

I would take his defensive rating regardless of what it is.

[Philsmania]

Yasmany Tomas with 2 more home runs tonight and 6 RBI,giving him 25 home runs in 101 games so far with .310.523/833 numbers. He has hit 8 home runs in his last 10 games and is quickly becoming one of the best young right handed power hitters in baseball at 25.

Seems to me that Tomas is very, very streaky. He goes into stretches like he is in now where he looks like Babe Ruth. Then, he'll go into a long funk.

[California_Dreamin]

Long funk? I completely reject that argument. He had one bad power month [May] all year and has hit 19 home runs in the last 2.5 months. I don't believe he is now in a good funk, I believe he is figuring things out. Look, I completely understand the rationale used when people suggest that the Hedges/Renfroe/Wisler for Hamels talk was mere talk, nothing substantiated. I know it was going on because I heard it and before the talk I didn't know Matt Wisler from Whistlers Mother and Austin Hedges might well have been a hedge hog at the San Diego Zoo. But I have always understood it.

But we all know Tomas was there for the taking, almost everyone acknowledged it. Heck, there were stories that agent Felipe Alou was following Amaro around like a puppy dog just waiting to ink the deal. Tomas to the Phillies was as good as a done deal.

Now, granted, even then there was debate about his skill level or eventual defensive position. But to me, that was mere semantics, sign this young power hitter and worry about where to play him later. And the fact is, whether we care to admit or not, that the Phils made a mistake, a big one and one that slowed their development this year in a period where getting players like Tomas should be Priority #1.

Why am I bringing this up? Because I am seeing little evidence that the Phils are learning from their mistakes when it comes to signing guys like Tomas, guys who only cost money and are not going to affect the international budget. And this concerns me.

I have said it often...I love most of what the Phils are doing, some minor criticisms but thats par for the course. But it just seems the Phils still are reluctant to use the one major advantage they have, money, to benefit their team. And the time is coming soon when they won't have that advantage because teams like the Yankees and Dodgers are also working out their rosters to have tons of money to spend in 2018.

The Phils have always seemed to be one step behind everyone else. To me, the Yasmany Tomas story is yet the latest. I believe he is going to be a star.

[allentown]

CD - I think the Phillies made their decision largely on defense which is a higher priority for them now and in the last 2 years. And his defense is bad according to the advanced metrics. WAR this season of only +0.4 which is weighed down by -1.3 in the OF.

I think you are ignoring the bigger picture: the Phillies have simply stopped spending significant $. They should have signed Tomas. The LA scouts reportedly pushed to signed Tomas, but were over-ruled by Gillick and TPTB. Is it really so hard to see this as more of a $ decision than a baseball decision?

[Austinfan]

Well, they spent on Harrison, Morton and Hellickson. Even Hernandez.

It's not like they've stop spending money, it may well have been a transition issue, at the time Gillick might not have had the pull to make those kind of signings. Or it may have been a shift in organizational philosophy, they may put a bigger premium on defense (synergies, good overall defense puts less stress on your starting staff, thus less stress on your bullpen, so its value is not just runs saved, but pitches not thrown).

Though if you just want a bad fielding LF with power, move Joseph to LF, he's actually a pretty good athlete and would probably be as good or better than Tomas is in LF. With Hoskins moving up, and Cozens a potential move to 1B, I'd at least have him think about doing it in winter ball. Good hit/bad field LFs aren't as hard to find as other positions.

[California_Dreamin]

andyb...there is a discussion going on at another thread about Asche and Ruf and should they be given another shot or are they failed players. My point is this...if the Phils had signed Tomas like they should and could have, we wouldn't be A] having discussions about Asche and Ruf, B] wouldn't have had to endure a year of Bourjos or Paredes or C] worry about the floor or ceiling level of Williams and Cozens.

Tomas would have rectified all 3 of these and Williams/Cozens would be gravy, not the main course. Not to mention how a middle of the order with right handed power hitters like Franco, Tomas, Rupp and Joseph sure would have made life easier for lefty prospects Williams and Cozens.

[California_Dreamin]

AF...spent on Harrison? Please. Insurance takes care of him. And if you are saying that the signings of Hellickson and Morton are signs of taking on money, I am sure the Phils want you to think that.

Look, no one has been a bigger advocate of the new Phillie braintrust, I was singing the Gillick/Middleton tune while Amaro was still believing that AJ Burnett was all that was needed to return the Phils to glory. But even for me, the honeymoon period has an expiration date and we do keep reading that when the time is right, the checks are going to flow. I still believe it.

But to me, the Tomas story was nothing but money, absolutely nothing. Phillies, please don't tell me its because you thought he was a shaky defensive left fielder, if there is one team that has made a Who's Who list of good hitting, weak fielding left fielders its the Phils.

This was all about money and it was a huge mistake. People, Yasmany Tomas, should he continue his power surge, might just lead the NL in home runs. In his second year. Without minor league experience. At 25.

And I can only imagine how many he could have hit in CBP, its a much better hitters park than is Arizona.

[Austinfan]

What the Phillies did in the past isn't a good guide to what Klentak will do in the future.

I think it makes sense to emphasis defense in today's game, it's undervalued, and has synergestic effects on pitching, which is expensive and hard to maintain. That is, if your fielding is well above average, it improves the performance of your pitchers, and puts less strain on them as a unit (fewer injuries).

That being said, you don't need eight great defensive players, but if you're breaking in a young pitching staff as they'll be doing the next couple years, erring on the side of defense does make sense (it's probably more stressful for young pitchers to constantly have men on base due to subpar fielding).

At least the last couple years, I don't see money driving decisions, insurance may pay for some of Harrison's contract, but I'm sure the Phillies are also on the hook for serious money (or the Rangers wouldn't have pushed for it to be included in the trade). You can scoff at Morton, Hellilckson and Hernandez, but that's $20+M right there, and if they're prepared to offer a QO, $16M next year plus we'll see if they pick up Morton's option. The failure to trade for additional LA allocation was probably either due to no one wanting to deal (at least without demand real prospects, which defeats the purpose of obtaining a bigger allocation) or no one left worth spending that money on (Phillies had no problem signing guys like Guzman) as the top guys were all locked up years before.

Tomas may have been a money issue, things were much different a few years ago.
Today, I think it may have more today with organizational philosophy, if the reports of Hoskins struggling defensively are true, it won't surprise me to see them showcase and trade him the next couple years.

[julio]

Yasmany Tomas was signed by the Diamondbacks in December of 2014.

This is about as dead a horse as I've ever seen flogged here. And yet, I fully expect to see this subject brought back up every couple of months (in season), for as long as Tomas continues to play well for the D-Backs. If his performance fades, so will the interest in bringing 2014 back up here; "I told you so" only works as long as Tomas is mashing.

Beyond that, December 2014 was before Middleton and the Buck cousins eased David Montgomery out of the front office; before Andy MacPhail was hired; before Matt Klentak was hired. Inferring anything about the current organization from what happened in December 2014 is just wrong.

[Philsmania]

What the Phillies did in the past isn't a good guide to what Klentak will do in the future.

I think it makes sense to emphasis defense in today's game, it's undervalued, and has synergestic effects on pitching, which is expensive and hard to maintain. That is, if your fielding is well above average, it improves the performance of your pitchers, and puts less strain on them as a unit (fewer injuries).

That being said, you don't need eight great defensive players, but if you're breaking in a young pitching staff as they'll be doing the next couple years, erring on the side of defense does make sense (it's probably more stressful for young pitchers to constantly have men on base due to subpar fielding).

At least the last couple years, I don't see money driving decisions, insurance may pay for some of Harrison's contract, but I'm sure the Phillies are also on the hook for serious money (or the Rangers wouldn't have pushed for it to be included in the trade). You can scoff at Morton, Hellilckson and Hernandez, but that's $20+M right there, and if they're prepared to offer a QO, $16M next year plus we'll see if they pick up Morton's option. The failure to trade for additional LA allocation was probably either due to no one wanting to deal (at least without demand real prospects, which defeats the purpose of obtaining a bigger allocation) or no one left worth spending that money on (Phillies had no problem signing guys like Guzman) as the top guys were all locked up years before.

Tomas may have been a money issue, things were much different a few years ago.
Today, I think it may have more today with organizational philosophy, if the reports of Hoskins struggling defensively are true, it won't surprise me to see them showcase and trade him the next couple years.

I find it interesting to observe how analytics and sabermetrics have evolved with regard to defense. I remember back in the '90's reading comments by sabermetrician types on email listserves (that was pre-internet message board days) who completely pooh-poohed defense (except maybe at shortstop) and advocated simply putting the best offensive player you could at every position and assumed that all the runs they created at the plate would more than balance out whatever runs their poor defense led to. To them, '93 Phillies were exhibit a of a team succeeding by doing that. And they were apoplectic at the thought of moving Hollins off of third. With his offensive numbers, they thought he was one of the best third basemen in the league and it was irrelevant that he was a butcher in the field.

[mdougherty12]

AF...spent on Harrison? Please. Insurance takes care of him. And if you are saying that the signings of Hellickson and Morton are signs of taking on money, I am sure the Phils want you to think that.

Look, no one has been a bigger advocate of the new Phillie braintrust, I was singing the Gillick/Middleton tune while Amaro was still believing that AJ Burnett was all that was needed to return the Phils to glory. But even for me, the honeymoon period has an expiration date and we do keep reading that when the time is right, the checks are going to flow. I still believe it.

But to me, the Tomas story was nothing but money, absolutely nothing. Phillies, please don't tell me its because you thought he was a shaky defensive left fielder, if there is one team that has made a Who's Who list of good hitting, weak fielding left fielders its the Phils.

This was all about money and it was a huge mistake. People, Yasmany Tomas, should he continue his power surge, might just lead the NL in home runs. In his second year. Without minor league experience. At 25.

And I can only imagine how many he could have hit in CBP, its a much better hitters park than is Arizona.

Your last statement is not true. Chase Field is a better hitter's park than Citizen's Bank.

Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk

[California_Dreamin]

Opps, answered this point from mdougherty on the News/Discussion thread by mistake. Short form...He has hit more home runs on the road than at home so whether or not Arizona or CBP is a better hitters park is irrelevant, the guy can flat out hit.

[size=85]MOD'S NOTE: I'm moving CD's post from the other thread here (CD - You could have fixed this yourself...) - J
[/size]
CD's comment follows:

Fair enough..and only strengthens the argument that Tomas is simply a power hitter who doesn't need power parks to hit with power. What would substantiate that? He has hit 14 of his 25 home runs on the road in a mere 183 at bats. He has hit 11 home runs in a bit over 200 at bats at home.

So, if Arizona is a better hitters park than CBP [don't believe it especially when the roof is on but for the sake of argument, lets say it is] then his numbers say he would be hitting homers whether he played his home games at the Grand Canyon.

Your single point should never ever change the argument...Tomas would have added greatly to the Phillies offense, not just as an individual but collectively. Adding him would have made pitching to Franco and Joseph and Herrera that much tougher. And also guaranteed that NEVER EVER would the Phils had an outfielder [Bourjos] batting ninth.

I wasn't home last night but went to the game report to see how the team was doing and started at the end of where it was when I got home and worked my way backward. I started at the point where the Phils had the bases loaded and no outs and the jest of the talk was that the Phils likely would not score...and they didn't.

Hitters like Tomas make those situations less likely and could occasionally add 2-4 runs with one swing.

[Austinfan]

CD, is the horse dead yet?
Or should we bring up letting someone claim Bell in the Rule 5 draft?

As Julio pointed out, the group that made that decision aren't in charge anymore.
Nor was missing out on Tomas a decision that will make or break this franchise.

If you look at the potential starters in 2018, the only ones who aren't good bets to put up 20 HRs are Crawford, Hernandez, Quinn and Herrera, and all but Herrera should still post healthy ISOs. Power is not going to be an issue going forward: Rupp/Alfaro, Joseph/Hoskins, Franco, Altherr/Cozens almost guarantee four spots in the lineup with plus, and maybe plus plus power. And with Pujols and Ortiz further down the pipeline, this probably won't be an issue for a while. Williams/Herrera (or Quinn) in LF shouldn't be too much of a fall off at a corner spot, with Randolph right behind them. And if Pullin turns out to be real, well, it's gonna be awfully crowded in LF in two years.

[Slinging_Southpaw]

Myself, I haven't lost any sleep from losing out on Tomas. He would have been more fun to watch that Bourjos and Asche, but I'm much
more excited about what he have on the way.
While we're bringing up Tomas, why don't we discuss another Free Agent outfielder(more recent history), Justin Upton, that some(pretty sure CD was one) wanted to go all in on, because of the feeling that our young pitchers would be demoralized from the lack of offense. Thankfully we didn't get in on that!!

[California_Dreamin]

I still say you are all missing the point. Missing it completely. Its not whether we lose one minute of sleep about Tomas or not, I certainly haven't. But there was an opportunity to bring in a talented hitter for nothing but money and the Phils declined the opportunity.

To me, this was not a talent evaluation but a money one. And to this point, nothing has been done that indicates a change in philosophy. And yes, I was an advocate of bringing a hitter or two to give the young hurlers a better chance to win. And still am.

I believe when the story of the 2016 Phillies is written there is likely to be lots of positives. But there will be serious and concerning negatives and the less than obvious improvements of the young starters is likely to be the biggest. In my mind, Nola, Velasquez, Appel and Eflin are not better now than they were earlier, Eickhoff's status is yet to be finalized and Thompson's score is incomplete.

I think a few more hitters might have helped with the youngster's development. And having one as young as Tomas would have been a bonus. We are all excited about what the young outfielders might do someday. I see it as getting excited about hoping they end up doing as well as Tomas is doing right now.

For nothing but money, something the Phils are swimming in.