Minor League Games - Tuesday, August 8, 2017

[Austinfan]

Freddie's feeling the pressure, made an amazing play on the bad throw by Eflin and still turned the double play.
Actually, you wonder if they might try Crawford at 3B if Franco doesn't improve his hitting. Or move Freddie there.

[bigegypt0417]

Freddie's feeling the pressure, made an amazing play on the bad throw by Eflin and still turned the double play.
Actually, you wonder if they might try Crawford at 3B if Franco doesn't improve his hitting. Or move Freddie there.

No.

JP Crawford will be the SS unless he once again falls of a cliff.

[bigegypt0417]

They must change from sportscenter to sportscenter -- it was #5 on the one I watched!

Great play for JP, regardless.

You might be right...I was working off of memory and that aint what it used to be.

[julio]

Freddie's feeling the pressure, made an amazing play on the bad throw by Eflin and still turned the double play.
Actually, you wonder if they might try Crawford at 3B if Franco doesn't improve his hitting. Or move Freddie there.

No.

Galvis made a nice play on Eflin's throw... but I noticed that Larry Shenk (who may or may not be parroting organizational philosophy now) tweeted this last night:

Larry Shenk (ShenkLarry)

I've been through the whole game, followed by reviewing the "condensed" game on mlb.tv, and all the game's video highlights, and I cannot figure out what the heck Shenk is talking about here. The first one - the snag of Eflin's wide throw to start the DP - was a nice play, but "amazing"? Other than that? My guess is he's referring to a later double play where Galvis fielded a grounder to his left (not much to his left), then did a glove-hand flip to Cesar covering 2nd, who caught it bare-handed then threw on to first. But on that play? Neither putout was particularly close. The play looked impressive - glove-hand flip to barehanded catch - but the fancy play didn't appear necessary to get the outs. Flashy - but nothing there that "took away a hit," or saved anything.

The stop Crawford made, far to his right on a hot grounder? That was a play.

There's a "Freddy Galvis campaign" underway, IMHO, by people like Larry Shenk, and at least some of the Phils' announcing crew. They puff up his on-field performance, they wax about how important he is in the clubhouse, etc. This is pure sentimentality, IMHO. Everybody likes Freddy.

J.P. Crawford probably has at least the same on-field value as Galvis right now, because of his OBP, and greater range. And J.P. Crawford is younger - 5.16 years younger. Put aside the sentimentality, and this is, IMHO, a complete no-brainer.

[Austinfan]

Alastre is one of those skinny LA players they probably were treating with kid gloves until he filled out.
He's only 20, and is listed at 6'1 155, though that's probably 3-4 years old.
Hit .314 is the VSL at 17, and took the "HS" route, GCL, Williamsport and now Lakewood at 20, in three MILB seasons has a .302 BA.
Needs to fill out, be more selective and improve his baserunning.

From two years ago:

Alastre tore up the VSL a year ago at age 17 and is showing some solid abilities in the GCL this year. He is a plus to plus plus runner (though the instincts aren’t great) who can play all three outfield positions. There isn’t a lot of power, but he is worth keeping an eye on because he can play center field and there is some a feel for contact.

Let’s Try This Again: A Way Too Late GCL Phillies Primer

[Austinfan]

I'm sorry, that was a great play by Galvis on the throw by Eflin, first keeping his foot on the bag was a tough play in and of itself, then being able to pivot and make an accurate throw and complete the double play!
The other double play was just an example of a pair of infielders who have played together for a while and are on the same page.

IF Crawford's last month isn't an illusion but the shape of things to come, yes, he's going to be the starting SS for the Phillies for a decade.
Since July 1: 127 25 36 6 4 10 27 34 .284/.389/.628/1.017
I want to see him continue this pace through August.
This is the player who is the elite prospect, not the one we've seen the last couple seasons.

[andyb]

Alastre is one of those skinny LA players they probably were treating with kid gloves until he filled out.
He's only 20, and is listed at 6'1 155, though that's probably 3-4 years old.
Hit .314 is the VSL at 17, and took the "HS" route, GCL, Williamsport and now Lakewood at 20, in three MILB seasons has a .302 BA.
Needs to fill out, be more selective and improve his baserunning

Not sure there is any evidence of the Phillies treating Alastre with kid gloves or anything like that. We also don't need to make the assumption that every Latin American prospect needs to "fill out" any more than American prospects.

The main point that stands is that the Phillies have NEVER played Alastre as if he were a top prospect. This means overall playing time and position in the lineup. For instance at the beginning of the year in Williamsport they were playing Matos more regularly than Alastre. Alastre got promoted because he had a little more experience, but it was a promotion that really looked like they were shuffling the lesser prospects around the system to fill roster holes.

Alastre has some on base ability and a little speed, but has really not shown in any extended period that he is a real prospect (i.e. system top 30 or even 50). Small sample sizes in Lakewood are not enough to change that opinion. The way the Phillies have played him looks like they just don't believe in his tools projecting into major league tools. Maybe they don't like his defense since he has not played much CF (even last year when the competition was Martinelli and not Moniak).

[andyb]

The stop Crawford made, far to his right on a hot grounder? That was a play.

Galvis has really good hands, balance, and coordination so he does make a number of good plays where those skills come into play. Just not sure he has the range to get where Crawford got to that ball. That was about as deep in the hole as I have ever seen a shortstop play.

Now I am guessing some of this was his positioning in the hole. And to be honest I don't think the runner was that fast. But it was still a play that few can make.

[Austinfan]

6'1 155 - he needs to "fill out."
On the other hand, that was never an issue with Ortiz.

We've seen this with Tocci, while he'll never be a power hitter, he's added strength and became a better hitter, he's listed at 6'2 160, but that's probably extremely dated.
And I suspect that's part of Moniak's problem, at 19 he doesn't have the strength that hopefully he'll develop by 21-22.

[andyb]

You are just making a broad assumption on all Latin American prospects based on a height and weight listing from 3 years ago. It really has no bearing on whether he is a real prospect. Ortiz will fill out and get stronger also as most 18-year-olds will.

[Austinfan]

An extreme height/weight ratio is pretty strong evidence.
Now some players can't add strength, that's part of projecting prospects in any sport.
But whether it's Gowdy or a tall, skinny LA player, young players generally need to fill out.
However, you tend to see more extremes in 16 year LA players, because they are often impoverished, and don't have the same nutritional opportunities or training facilities as American kids.
We take "3 square meals a day" and substantial protein in our diets for granted.

[andyb]

You don't get the central point is that it adds nothing to the discussion of whether he is an actual prospect. You can say the exact same thing about just about every 18-20 year old and we don't need a discussion of physiology. In general the way the Phillies have treated him is that they don't like the way his tools project. That is why they have made him mostly a 4th OF the last few years. They like Malvin Matos more for instance, and they don't like Matos that much. We have not seen anything from Alastre that suggests he is more than guys like Coppola and Herlis Rodriguez - in other words fringe prospects who don't really project into major leaguers.

[bigegypt0417]

An extreme height/weight ratio is pretty strong evidence.
Now some players can't add strength, that's part of projecting prospects in any sport.
But whether it's Gowdy or a tall, skinny LA player, young players generally need to fill out.
However, you tend to see more extremes in 16 year LA players, because they are often impoverished, and don't have the same nutritional opportunities or training facilities as American kids.
We take "3 square meals a day" and substantial protein in our diets for granted.

What evidence are you basing this on? This seems to be an ongoing stereotype?

How do you decide why someone like Ortiz was huge coming over and the others you put in your scenarios?

[Austinfan]

6'4 225 lbs isn't huge?
62'160 isn't skinny.

Sometimes you're allowed to use common sense.

[bigegypt0417]

6'4 225 lbs isn't huge?
62'160 isn't skinny.

Sometimes you're allowed to use common sense.

I think you keep missing the point. You have canned answers about this topic every single time and never offer any information or proof.

Mickey Moniak is skinny and needs to add muscle...is the reason no one told his parents about 3 meals a day or was he impoverished?

Your error is you believe you're using common sense...

[Austinfan]

Moniak was 6'2 185 lbs at age 18, it's likely had he grown up in an impoverished household in a poor country he might only weigh 165-170 lbs at the same age.

It's a matter of distributions, on average, the same athlete growing up with poor nutrition and fewer opportunities to access structured training programs and equipment will have less muscle mass at the same age. That's "common sense."

There's obviously genetic factors and there will be LA players from middle class backgrounds and American players from poor households (but American poverty is not third world poverty).

[bigegypt0417]

Moniak was 6'2 185 lbs at age 18, it's likely had he grown up in an impoverished household in a poor country he might only weigh 165-170 lbs at the same age.

It's a matter of distributions, on average, the same athlete growing up with poor nutrition and fewer opportunities to access structured training programs and equipment will have less muscle mass at the same age. That's "common sense."

There's obviously genetic factors and there will be LA players from middle class backgrounds and American players from poor households (but American poverty is not third world poverty).

Again...this seems to be some type of formula you created in your head based on a stereotype. It's purely based on where someone comes from and nothing else.

[Austinfan]

It's not a stereotype, go read some economic history.

[bigegypt0417]

It's not a stereotype, go read some economic history.

oh...so reading about economics will make me better understand the topic?

lol

You make your argument based on nothing factual. It takes nothing else in to consideration.

[Austinfan]

There's an extensive literature in economic history concerning nutrition and stature in populations.