Buchholz is [strike]a clown[/strike] down! (Flexor pronator tear)

[Patchmk88]

From all reports I have read, Hellickson is in line to make his next start.

[Austinfan]

Buchholtz was hurt in ST, never busted 90 MPH, averaged 92 last year.
His command problems were typical of a pitcher losing velocity and trying to overthrow his FB.
His breaking stuff is solid, but it's hard to set up a slow curve with a slow FB.

Morgan was hitting 94-95, but he just didn't seem comfortable coming out of the pen.
They need to teach him to throw a 2 seamer or cut fastball, he doesn't trust his FB so he tries to overthrow it and can't locate it.
And he throws too much off speed stuff b/c he doesn't trust his FB behind in the count.

[schooldoc]

Pete said on WIP this morning that Hellickson is fine.

[Philsmania]

Clown's a little harsh. Perhaps either hurt or on the downside of his career or both but I wouldn't say clown.

[Patchmk88]

Clown is the word I use most often in sports when I'm unhappy with a person or teams performance. I find it better than using that lame SOB, or other expletives. It's more of a reactionary word than an overall feeling. Sorry if I offended anyone. Thought it was pretty tame.

[Squire]

Looks like Buchholz might be done. MRI reveals partial tear of right flexor pronator mass. 13 million down the drain. I know this stuff happens but Buchholz has a long injury history. Next time the Phillies tsk tsk everyone that spending money in Cuba or Latin America is "risky"

[phillychuck]

And this $13 M follows the $8 M down the drain for Charlie Morton last year.

I wonder if the Red Sox knew he was damaged goods?

[julio]

Clown is the word I use most often in sports when I'm unhappy with a person or teams performance. I find it better than using that lame SOB, or other expletives. It's more of a reactionary word than an overall feeling. Sorry if I offended anyone. Thought it was pretty tame.

I might have said "disappointment," for whatever that's worth. It doesn't convey the sense of...I don't know, anger? Entitlement?... that "clown" does (or that expletives do), in that it's not disparaging Buchholz, it's just a statement of how I feel. But then, why be angry at Clay Buchholz? He wasn't trying to give up runs, he pretty surely didn't want to be injured. He didn't claim to be something he's not, or misrepresent himself to the fans (at all). And frankly, the Phils didn't misrepresent Buchholz either; we all knew that this pickup was a gamble.

From where I sit, we (the fans) haven't been "wronged" here. The Phillies took a gamble, and it has not paid off. Stuff happens.

VkF wrote

Buchholz had an established 10 yr track record of inconsistent performance and injury history the Phillies should have known before signing him.

The Phillies did know about Buchholz' performance and injury history before they traded for him (note: they didn't "sign" him). We knew about it; the Philly media knew about it. That's why acquiring him was a gamble - which everybody recognized at the time.

The Phils chose to take a risk on Buchholz, in hopes that he could help the 2017 club be more competitive, spending some of the money that we grouse about if they don't spend. They rolled snake eyes. Again, stuff happens. But we complain when they don't spend money; we complain when they do. Maybe we just like to complain?

[Austinfan]

I don't think so, he was throwing 92 to finish out last season.
So it doesn't look like there was the kind of dropoff that would signal an injury.

They were gambling on 12-15 starts, not a long-term contract.
I'm sure they would have flipped the first chance they got and even eaten some salary to get a prospect back, because by July they epxected a couple Lehigh pitchers to be ready to be promoted.

I think between Morton and Buchholtz, Klentak is now convinced to never sign a FA pitcher to a long-term deal, if they can't last a year, what are the odds they'll get through five years.

[Philsmania]

I don't think so, he was throwing 92 to finish out last season.
So it doesn't look like there was the kind of dropoff that would signal an injury.

They were gambling on 12-15 starts, not a long-term contract.
I'm sure they would have flipped the first chance they got and even eaten some salary to get a prospect back, because by July they epxected a couple Lehigh pitchers to be ready to be promoted.

I think between Morton and Buchholtz, Klentak is now convinced to never sign a FA pitcher to a long-term deal, if they can't last a year, what are the odds they'll get through five years.

Morton, Buchholz...Klentak sure is snakebit on these salary dump veteran starters. I don't think Buchholz was damaged goods. Just dumb-butt bad luck.

[phillychuck]

You swing and miss enough times and it starts to look like it's not luck. Two times isn't enough, but 3/3 could put him on the hot seat. Owners don't like giving away their money.

[fish]

I'm left wondering where their analytics comes in to their decision making process. Buchholz seems like an old veterans scouting the stat-line from several years ago type move that Ed Wade would have done. If nothing else the last thing you want to expose young team with is a guy with a reputation for nibbling and painfully long games.

[LoneStarPhan]

Hellickson worked out pretty well but they whiffed on the other two. I think Morton was a good gamble but didn't see much hope for Buchholz. I hoped their scouts saw some reason to believe he would be better this year but with the injury, he will provide no value. Frankly, I am glad he is gone early in the season because he was dragging the staff and team down.

[BostonRoss]

One out of three for these kinds of flyers is fine. The Phillies didn't give up anything of value other than money that they had plenty of. Somebody has to pitch these games, and you don't want to rush promising prospects. And you have to put a semblance of a competitive team out on the field.

[Philsmania]

Morton injured his leg trying to field a ball. Not exactly something they should have foreseen.

[LoneStarPhan]

Yes, Morton seemed to be pitching well. I consider it a good move signing him last year. I'd much rather had him back instead of Buchholz.

[phillychuck]

I'm not saying I disagree, but it's not my money going down the drain. I think owners have less patience and perspective than we do.

Should we have foreseen Buchholz? I think maybe. Morton? Probably no. And, as noted above, Helicon was a win.

[zambonir]

Morton had an injury history though, didn't he? Just not the same injury that took him last year. If it's a pitcher over 30, you can probably assume a high chance of injury. The longer the contract, the higher the chance. But then, it's true of pitchers under 30 too, they just are more likely to return and be useful in the future.

Considering there's no Jerome Williams or Sean O'Sullivan on the team, the signing doesn't bother me. Basically he's Aaron Harang, but with a much faster breakdown (and higher salary). When they traded for him I think they simply didn't know who would be available of Nola, Eflin and Thompson (much like when they got Kendrick they weren't planning to get Saunders, and weren't expecting Altherr to be fully ready).

Asher could have eaten some innings though!