2025 Trade Deadline Discussion

andyb 2025-07-04 12:32:44 UTC #41

I just don't see how paying players to go away essentially helps you better allocate payroll and roster spots. It seems you are just recommending that they spend more money. Nothing to do with allocation. Everything to do with just spending to keep up to the Mets because that is the only way to make problem contracts go away.

We all want them to get younger and better. Sometimes the best way to do that is to ride out a player that is overpaid but still productive AND at the same time keep our younger assets. It is why in trades that I (and apparently DD over the winter) thought it was a good idea to trade Bohm because he has value, but may not fit into long term plans. That is how you better allocate payroll and roster spots. Casty just has nothing to do with that.

zambonir 2025-07-04 13:04:41 UTC #42

Of course there was no Harper in the Astros series. But that being the case I think it might be time to trade some prospects for more offense or rather, it was probably time this past off-season (i.e. Tucker) as the deadline trade market for bats is thin. And barring that it's where some of the resources need to go next year.

In most scenarios that probably means just paying Casty $20 million to be a platoon player next year. Unfortunately he isn't really blocking anyone. If Marsh is our LF and Crawford is our CF he's still going to be a good an option as anyone and if they sign a new LF Marsh should probably share RF with him. The only scenario where it's urgent to dump him is if Harper has to move back to RF (assuming Schwarber is still our DH).

Problem is the top six FA OFs are all guys we already decided not to get (Tucker, Bellinger, Robert Jr, Tyler O'Neil) or Cedric Mullins who is not that different from what we have plus Schwarber. Obviously you make a run at Tucker, the rest of them are all flawed and don't make the team younger. You'd probably rather have Nick on an expiring deal than be stuck with any of them for four years, especially if you just kept Schwarber and JT. And you'd rather have a line-up with both Tucker and Nick, or Bellinger and Nick, if you did go that way.

They'll have to look at Bregman again. And can't rule out moving Harper to OF if the only way to get a bat is a 1B/DH (but that's only if you don't sign Schwarber I think, in which case the spot is already open).

A creative trade is easier said than done but if they trade Bohm, Stott or Marsh you can at least get prospects to use in other trades, or other young players. Trading Nick just doesn't do much probably. The Phillies shop him because they'd like to have the $20 million to spend on something else but no team has been willing to do any kind of deal where that's the case.

phillychuck 2025-07-04 14:06:07 UTC #43

A post was merged into an existing topic: The '25-'26 Philadelphia Flyers thread

phillychuck 2025-07-04 14:02:17 UTC #44

Or we hope Kepler is finally starting to get a bit better--he should have had 2 big HRs v the Padres, lost one to a spectacular catch. I’m not a big fan of in-season trades--usually you’re getting back mediocre value, and if you trade for a reliever you’re playing Reliever roulette--we have not been great at in-season reliever trades.

flyers19rw 2025-07-04 14:18:14 UTC #45

The problem with Phillies right now is that they are trying to run a power bat offense without the power bats. When they sink into believing that they are a Murderers Row, they get into trouble. Then when they turn it around to being a contact hitting, smaller ball mode, they have greater success. Running around at the trade deadline looking for another bopper at the plate is just chasing their shadow. Better to tighten up the defense and utilize the players that can get on base; move them along and knock them in. The recent emphasis of speed on the bases has been helpful. It puts a strain on their opponent's defense which has an impact in unseen ways to the advantage of the Phillies.
The best player move that the Phillies could make right now would be to defer on trades and bring up Crawford. His speed could help in many ways on offense as well as defense.

zambonir 2025-07-04 14:21:16 UTC #46

Yeah, Murphy just did the "be careful what you wish for" column. Mainly that the Phillies might have some regret about not keeping Hays, and also that Kepler had a poor first half in 2023 and then was All-Star level in the second-half of that season. Last year he was hurt, though of course he's also older. And, as we all know, not a ton of actual upgrades out there. But all of that does argue for just getting a RHB yet again.

In 2023, the switch flipped for Kepler in late June. Before that, he was where he is now. He had a .672 OPS. He was losing playing time in the Twins’ outfield. Then, boom. He hit a home run at Camden Yards and never looked back.

From June 30 through the end of the season, Kepler was one of the hottest hitters in the American League. He hit 14 home runs in his last 75 games, batting .301 with a .371 on-base percentage and a .538 slugging percentage, for a .909 OPS in his last 299 plate appearances of the season.

He also notes that Soto is now 17-for-18 in hold opportunities and has stranded 14-of-18 inherited runners.

allentown 2025-07-04 18:41:43 UTC #47

All the players and contracts you talk about are a very big hole and it will cost big $ and/or our best prospects to shed those contract. To what end? Any help from those guys will be gone. Little $ saved, so few $ to buy better/ better suited replacements. Regardless of how far this year's team advances in the 2025 playoiffs, if we trade our top prospects at the deadline we will find ourselves in rebuild rather than retooling next year. This team is getting very old. It still has some big $ deals with a ton of years left. Yes, our pen hasn't helped much in the playoffs, but the real killer has been the way our offense, including our stars, can just vanish in any given playoff series. That has resulted in the Phillies exiting the playoffs earlier each season since they made it to the WS. This is the same as when we went progressively backwards in playoff performance each year after being champions in 2008 -- and that is despite the biggest in-season win total coming after 2008, just as last year's team won more games in regular season than our WS team did. Our big hitters are streaky and have weaknesses that the better teams have found and can exploit, just as Houston did in playoffs and again in-season a week ago. Playoff-quality pitching and a thorough ptiching game plan stymie our hitters.

zambonir 2025-07-08 14:34:05 UTC #48

ESPN's proposal for Buxton: both Painter and Crawford

allentown 2025-07-08 15:22:21 UTC #49

Nope.

bigegypt0417 2025-07-08 15:27:40 UTC #50

Byron Buxton is in his 11th ML season and has played 100 games...twice.

What a terrible trade proposal.

zambonir 2025-07-08 15:31:23 UTC #51

The whole concept of the column is hyperbolic, but Buxton still wouldn't be cheap given his performance and cost/control, even with the injury history. A more realistic trade would start with Crawford and Abel but at least one more good piece, unless you start putting a reliever into it as well, as this thread started with.

I certainly consider Painter untouchable, but if the Phillies are seriously interested in re-signing Ranger, and confident they can, should he be?

bigegypt0417 2025-07-08 15:40:51 UTC #52

I'm definitely not moving Painter for anything less than a bona fide star. It would have to be someone young and among the best.

zambonir 2025-07-08 15:45:21 UTC #53

For Acuna, maybe.

biggsphils 2025-07-08 21:14:13 UTC #54

2 bad knees and a head case NOPE!

andyb 2025-07-08 21:15:47 UTC #55

But 100% certainty on signing his little brother.

biggsphils 2025-07-08 21:19:11 UTC #56

Substitute Abel and Escobar for Painter and have them add Duran

BostonRoss 2025-07-08 21:28:22 UTC #57

The average trade proposal on this site shows a lot more intelligence and common sense than most of those that appear on various sites, both established media and less legitimate ones.

zambonir 2025-07-09 23:54:07 UTC #58

More Bowden "content. Funny, I feel like he's conservative in the first and last answer but overpaying for Helsley, though it's probably a fair price.

> 5. What kind of return do you think the Phillies could get for Mick Abel? Do you think they should consider trading him? — Michael M.

> The only way the Phillies should trade Abel is if they can acquire what they believe is the missing piece to winning a world championship this year. In other words, for example, if they could pry both Emmanuel Clase and Steven Kwan from the Guardians and Abel had to be part of the package to get the trade done, then it would make sense to deal him.

> 6. What is a reasonable return for Ryan Helsley? In general, and specifically to the Phillies? — Ralph K.

> Helsley has a 3.30 ERA, a 3.79 FIP and 17 saves in 22 opportunities this season. He’s in his free-agent walk year and the Cardinals are still within striking distance. A reasonable return in a trade with the Phillies could be second baseman Aroon Escobar and outfielder Griffin Burkholder. MLB Pipeline ranks Escobar and Burkholder sixth and ninth, respectively, in the Phillies’ system.

> 7. Trade proposal: Pirates trade RHP David Bednar and RHP Dennis Santana to the Phillies for OF Justin Crawford. Who says no? — Matthew D.

> I think the Phillies say no. Crawford, 21, is slashing .340/.413/.447 in Triple A and is an elite defensive center fielder. The Phillies shouldn’t give up on him yet. I like Bednar and Santana and think they should pursue a deal for both, but that’s a steep price for just a year and half of two relievers. (Both will be free agents after the 2026 season.) The Phillies should be able to get them for a lesser prospect package.

andyb 2025-07-10 04:08:29 UTC #59

I think he is just trying to be sensational.

Pretty sure I would do Clase and Kwan for Abel and another minor prospect any day of the week and twice on Sunday, Abel really looks like a 4th starter type these days for me. Value, but really not that much value..

zambonir 2025-07-10 15:43:33 UTC #60

This is a bit all over the place but main takeaway is a controllable relief arm is the highest priority and anyone besides Painter is at least on the table as available. But they don't want to move anyone, including Abel, for a rental.

Gelb also says Phillies would listen on Marsh or try to move Kepler to give Crawford a shot. If it was Marsh they would get something back - a RHB or second relief arm or to replenish prospect depth.

LOL

> Whatever path the Phillies take, their quest is rather simple: They’d love to have one outfielder who can both hit and field his position.