2017 Season Phillies News/Notes/General Discussion

[fish]

Z

I'm not sure we can plausibly argue that it was an obvious mistake to keep Rupp and Galvis when neither of their ostensible replacements look ready in AAA. That's not to say Knapp and Hanigan (or Ellis) wouldn't have been fine. Heck, Andres Blanco at SS would be fine. And if the Phillies actually need Rupp and Galvis in 2018 they have bigger problems. But it's not out of the question.

I think Klentak has plenty of autonomy, and I also think the process is a lot more collaborative than we like to imagine (and that was also true before). If it's true that ownership, above MacPhail, decided they wanted to add payroll and have a more respectable team, more Giles-like deals wouldn't have achieved that, or sold the team as being worth a look this year. That may not have been Klentak's choice. But nobody expected the pitching to be this bad, or the two players you could write down in ink to struggle.

If they don't start to act with a sense of urgency to get creative and spend money for either international amateur talent, take on expensive big league contracts to flip for talent, or start using what they have to acquire what they don't have, there is going to be a whole lot of uproar after next year when they either A) decide adding a Harper or Machado doesn't make sense for a losing team, or B) no self respecting star would choose to sign up to join this.

[andyb]

Of course we can't argue that any one non-move in 2016 (like not trading Hellickson or Rupp) was a mistake. That does mean that we can't argue that the collective do nothing at all at the 2016 trade deadline was not a mistake.

Klentak did nothing when he should have done something in terms of trading assets that would likely not be a major part of our next contending team OR trading assets where we had multiple other options.

The results really look like a rookie GM who was hesitant to make any moves.

[Austinfan]

You're not going to get enough for Rupp or Galvis to move the needle, if you don't think they're starters for a 90+ loss team, why would anyone give up a top prospect?
I see this from fans all the time, "do something, anything."
Then when a GM panics and does something, it's usually a disaster and the fans want him fired!

Right now the best thing Klentak can do is be patient, flip some veterans in July, keep restocking with the next two drafts, and keep building up the farm system. The window for big LA spending is past, so spend on scouts and trade for allocations IF the price is right (i.e. you don't trade legitimate prospects so you can sign marginal LA 16 year olds).

Nor is it easy to spend, Desmond got 5y, $70M, starting at age 31, he has a .691 OPS, Saunders got $9M. Both are flops, which flop would you rather have? With that salary, Desmond is untradeable. There weren't a lot of attractive FAs changing teams last year.

Cespedes (31) - 4yr/$110M .992 OPS but has only played 18 games
Desmon (31) - 5yr/$70M .692 OPS
Encarnacion (34) - 3yr/$60M .774 OPS
Turner (30) - 4yr/$64M .965 (3B)
Reddick (30) - 4yr/$52M .775 OPS
Trumbo (31) - 3yr/$37.5 .733 OPS
Morales (33) - 3yr/$33M .763 OPS
Bautista (36) - 1yr/$18M .763 OPS
Walker (31) - 1yr/$17M .793 OPS (2B)
Beltran (40) - 1yr/$16M .712 OPS

Jensen (29) - 5yr/$80M 1.11ERA/0.36FIP
Chapman (30) - 5yr/$86M 3.55ERA/1.42FIP 14 games
Melancon (32) - 4yr/$62M 3.12ERA/3.08FIP
HIll (37) - 3yr/$48M 3.77ERA/4.98FIP 7 starts
Cecil (31) - 4yr/$30m - 5.66 ERA/4.92FIP
Volquez (33) 2yr/$22M - 3.41ERA/3.98FIP

[andyb]

Another long and largely meaningless list.

Trades. We made none of significance last year. We stood pat and let some assets like Hellickson and Rupp decline in value. We declined to spend an extra $2.8 million internationally. How does that help the team?

[Philsmania]

Of course we can't argue that any one non-move in 2016 (like not trading Hellickson or Rupp) was a mistake. That does mean that we can't argue that the collective do nothing at all at the 2016 trade deadline was not a mistake.

Klentak did nothing when he should have done something in terms of trading assets that would likely not be a major part of our next contending team OR trading assets where we had multiple other options.

The results really look like a rookie GM who was hesitant to make any moves.

Last year, many here patted Klentak on the back for sticking to his guns and demanding first round pick value for Hellickson and praised him for serving notice that he wouldn't be rolled. But now, yes, it looks like a strategic blunder and a rookie mistake.

If I had to grade Klentak so far, I would probably give him a charitable C-.

[zambonir]

I still don't think the Hellickson decision was a mistake. They'll get something for him. And when you look at what might have been (the Marlins player or the comp pick) you still have to include what they get for him this year plus the value he brought as a member of this year's team. Given the state (and youth) of most of the arms around him, those innings have mattered, the good ones and the bad ones.

He also traded Ruiz. Rupp's value was probably not that high - how many teams actually tried to get a catcher last deadline? Rupp looked pretty good at the midpoint but who actually thought it was sustainable? I do agree they would have and could have traded him in the off-season, but not for much, and a Knapp/Hanigan (or Ellis) tandem would have been risky. Happily, Knapp looks like he could have handled it now.

I think all these non-moves are not about the players they aren't trading, they are no more important (and in some cases no more valuable) than Peter Bourjos or Daniel Nava, they're just here because the brass feels strongly that their replacements aren't ready. I think if someone made a decent offer for Rupp or Galvis they wouldn't have hesitated to do a deal and get by with a AAAA replacement. But those players will also have some value this year or this off-season.

I'm just not perturbed by the slow pace. By all means, if we're still having the same conversation at this time next year, if there haven't been at least two more Giles-size deals between now and then (just in terms of creativity and ambition if not return), that would be bad.

I guess I would trade Hernandez but I don't know that the deadline is gonna be the time. Young, controllable for a long time starters don't usually go then. That also lets you see how Kingery does in AAA (and they could also choose to trade Kingery of course).

[julio]

Well, now.

Yesterday - yesterday - the Phillies sold Taylor Featherston's contract to the Rays.

Today - Cesar Hernandez is out of the lineup, because he "felt something in his side" throwing yesterday. Possibly an oblique injury.

Jim Salisbury (JSalisburyCSN)

Todd Zolecki (ToddZolecki)

So...if Hernandez has an oblique injury that requires DL time...what happens now? Jes Valentin is unavailable. Flores? Florimon? Is it suddenly Kingery time?

[Austinfan]

Florimon was playing very well, he'd be the obvious callup.
Kingery would be then promoted to Lehigh, he's too valuable to rush.

[julio]

The other possibility, I suppose, would be Howie Kendrick at 2B - and then if there's a 25-man roster opening (e.g., Cesar on DL), fill that with an outfielder/hitter?

[Philsmania]

The other possibility, I suppose, would be Howie Kendrick at 2B - and then if there's a 25-man roster opening (e.g., Cesar on DL), fill that with an outfielder/hitter?

That's would mean--GASP!--calling up Williams. Heaven forbid they actually call up a prospect!

[Austinfan]

I think it's early to call up Williams, he's improved this year but he's still a wild swinger. Needs to focus on plate discipline.
It's too bad Hoskins can't play LF.
Stassi could be the call up in that situation, except I think they would want a RH, so Perkins is a possibility.

[allentown]

I'd call up Williams. There is a benefit to playing in MLB and finding out what works and doesn't work about your game. An MLB season is not the same as ST. It would be a good experience for Williams.

[rkeden]

Boy, this team is very hard to watch. This game was not nearly as close as the score indicates.

[zambonir]

it's certainly not going to ruin Williams but it sounds doubtful for all the reasons mentioned above. Hernandez might not be out long, Stassi might get the call, or they might just prefer Florimon or Gomez even if Kendrick gets the playing time (though they still have Ty Kelly too, that'd be a lot of utility).

[Austinfan]

Martinez shows how a young pitcher can learn to stop tryting to throw it through a brick wall and pitch. No shame in being shut down by him, he's dominating this season.

Watching our young pitchers, you can see Velasquez and Pivetta squeezing the ball, trying to throw FBs too hard, pulling breaking balls because they think they have to strike out everyone instead of just pitching to spots and not worrying about contact.
But that's part of growing pains, we're building a stable of young arms, in a year or two a number will figure it out and suddenly become solid starters.

Once you have that critical mass of talent, then you can bring in one or two high priced free agents to be the finishing touch.

Right now they're still auditioning and developing young talent and it's painful to watch, so were the late 1990s (and the early 1970s), difference is they won't let this generation's Bobby Abreu walk for nothing or stop adding talent after 2004.

[phillychuck]

Perkins would be the obvious OF call-up if they move Kendrick to the IF.

Old enough, good defensively, not too valuable to sit most of the time.

[gmwannabe]

AF you brought a good point. there could be hope on the horizon. i know some on this board have expressed some concern about the height of some of our farm pitchers (me included). thinking of sixto being only 6 feet tall.but after watching a little of martinez yesterday there is hope. he is listed at 6' 190 and sixto at 6' 185. martinez was awesome. here's hoping that sixto can be doing that for the phils in a few years.
gm

[julio]

Philadelphia Phillies activated RHP Joaquin Benoit from the 10-day disabled list.
Philadelphia Phillies placed 2B Cesar Hernandez on the 10-day disabled list. Strained left oblique.

Howie Kendrick at 2B in today's lineup. It remains to be seen how long they go with a short bench.

[BostonRoss]

Agree that calling up Perkins is better than calling up Williams to sit on the bench or to try his luck against better pitching than the pitching he is facing now and hasn't mastered.

[bkeich]

Wow, Odubel with another double today.

This is actually a historic run at this point. He has almost twice as many extra base hits as any other player this month last I looked.