The New New Unending Flyers thread

[zambonir]

Official now (and Marcus Hayes did mention the gambling).

Tocc is the 25th head coach in Flyers history and while that includes three recent interims, that's an average of one coach every 2 1/4 years.

[zambonir]

What I haven't seen mentioned much is that Tocchet interviewed for and didn't get the job in 2022. Probably just as well for everyone (but also kind of hilarious that he probably didn't get it because Fletcher and co. thought Torts gave them a better chance to get back to the playoffs).

[Dirk41]

Coming around on this a little.

Nice podcast from the PHLY Flyers pod today mentioning style of play and how teams like Florida and Carolina play a similar dump and chase style to what Tocchet prefers. Watching Carolina play is poetry.

[LegoDoom]

dump and chase

Dump and chase is what the Flyers did forever and is beyond boring.

[Austinfan]

"Dump and chase" is an exaggeration for one thing, if you look at numbers, maybe the difference between the best and worst at O-zone entry is 10% of attempts, and that reflects that bad teams lack players who can execute clean zone entries. Tippett is the best, TK has improved, that's about it right now. And only two D-men can skate zone to zone, Sanheim and Drysdale.

What differentiates most teams is the ability and willingness to make dump and chase work, it requires effective forecheckers with speed and 'tude, Hathaway is one of the best in the NHL. To run an aggressive forecheck, you need speed and size at forward along with the willingness to hit. Anticipating the breakout pass also helps. And once you get the puck and start the cycle, you need to win board battles to maintain puck possession in the O-zone.

Carolina does it by coming in waves, they're relentless, no surprise given Brind'Amour is the HC.
I expect a similar approach by Tocchet, who understand both pressure and skill, you got to get the puck to shoot the puck.

[LegoDoom]

you got to get the puck to shoot the puck.

You can just as easily retain the puck to use it. Or are possession stats not a thing anymore?

[Docs]

May 14: The Senators have indeed retained their 2025 first-round pick and will push the forfeiture penalty down the road to 2026 in hopes of having the penalty reduced, per PuckPedia.

[zambonir]

Hardly the end of the world. Can't blame him (and also fine if Tocchet wants his own top assistant).

Still a few head jobs to chase, or I bet the Rangers would have one for him.

Source: Flyers associate coach Brad Shaw will not return under Rick Tocchet

[flyers19rw]

Rumor that one AC will be Mark Recchi and the other will be Luke Richardson

[Docs]

With Carolina's win over Washington, the Colorado pick drops to 23rd overall.

If Florida were to also advance, the Colorado pick would lock in at 22nd & the Edmonton pick would fall between 30-32, depending on their finish. If Toronto comes back to win the series, 29 is still in play for the Edmonton pick.

And hopefully the Edmonton pick is used to secure Rossi

[Austinfan]

Hard to knock Richardson's credentials (ignore former Flyer player thing):

NHL Ottawa Senators (Asst. Coach) 2008-2012
AHL Binghamton Senators (Head Coach) 2012-2016
Deutschland Cup Team Canada (Asst. Coach) 2017
Spengler Cup Team Canada (Head Coach) 2017
NHL New York Islanders (Asst. Coach) 2017-2018
NHL Montreal Canadiens (Asst. Coach) 2018-2022
NHL Chicago Blackhawks (Head Coach) 2022-2024

[Austinfan]

And Recchi has pretty good experience as well:

Columbus Blue Jackets: Recchi was hired as an assistant coach on September 25, 2023, joining Pascal Vincent's coaching staff. He was fired from his position as assistant coach on August 6, 2024.
New Jersey Devils: He served as an assistant coach for the Devils from 2020 to 2022.
Pittsburgh Penguins: Recchi was an assistant coach with the Penguins from 2017 to 2020. He also served as their development coach for three seasons before that.

[zambonir]

And hopefully the Edmonton pick is used to secure Rossi

Isn't Rossi an RFA anyway? I guess Wild would match an offer that was lower than 4.68 (which only costs a second-round pick) and you don't want to pay him more than that (which would cost a 1st and third, still less than the trade price probably but a lot of $ to carry).

Hard to knock Richardson's credentials (ignore former Flyer player thing):

They sure do make it hard to ignore that!

[VoteForKalas]

(ignore former Flyer player thing)

Hard to ignore something that is slapping you hard across the face repeatedly.

Would it kill them to have one non-Flyer in the entire management and coaching group?

One would think at some point, after so many failures with ex-Flyers over so many years and regimes, that someone would learn a lesson and have the lightbulb go off and say, hmm, maybe we should look beyond our own guys for some talent. You know, like from the organizations that have actually won a Cup in the last 50 years.

[zambonir]

To be fair, the problem has always been more ex-Flyers in the front office, not behind the bench. And they've all been pretty successful. As this article points out Tocchet is only the second one to be hired directly, versus promoted after another guy got fired or left (Stevens, Berube, Barber, Holmgren). Terry Murray was the other. It's been five coaches before now and all of them had success (Barber the worst but even he won a Calder Cup).

The Flyers’ reputation for hiring ex-players is overblown when it comes to...

At the end of the day Recchi and Richardson have both spent years in other organizations, including as players, and are not really getting hired because they wore orange and black. Recchi and Tocchet's connection is their success in Pittsburgh and most people in hockey would still think of Richardson as a Leaf and Oiler. He is also someone who will probably leave for another head coaching job in a year or two, though his tenure in Chicago was Tortorella-like.

I would certainly take any of the ex-Flyers players or assistants currently serving as HC of another team (Berube, Montgomery, Brind'Amour, Knoblauch).

At least the days of only hiring from the Shero era are finally over, even if that's as much actuarial as philosophical by now.

[Docs]

Isn't Rossi an RFA anyway?

It’s possible that the teams work out a trade for the rights rather than playing the matching game.

[Austinfan]

Notice how many teams these "ex-Flyers" have played for or coached.
And of course, the people they played for and worked for as coaches and their connections.

In the NHL, there is at best 3 degrees of separation.

[zambonir]

Oh, I get it, and you use the threat of an offer to goose a trade too. But what is his next contract going to be? I mean, Dylan Holloway only had a $2.29 million AAV two-year contract, which only cost Edmonton a third-round pick. So would you rather make a $4.68 million offer for Rossi and lose a first and a third, or give up more than that in a trade but be able to pay him less (or longer-term)?

[Docs]

A lot of hockey writers are saying he will get more than $5M/year, some are predicting up to $7M. The only way I see him signing less than $4M is if he stays in Minnesota to run out his RFA clock.

[zambonir]

Yeah I mean 4.68 or higher, which is the threshold for a first and a third. I dunno even know if he's someone you want to give $5-7 million to, let alone give up even more assets (let's say the Edmonton pick and Brink, for instance) if it's a trade rather than an offer sheet.