The '25-'26 Philadelphia Flyers thread

[flyers19rw]

Going back to the draft for a moment. Nesbitt is getting ripped because he doesn't fit for being the #12 selection. In his defense, the Flyers wanted him and hoped that he would last until 22. When they saw that he wasn't going to make it to their selection they jumped up and made the deal. He probably would have been a 15-17 selection but others weren't going to let that happen. I tip my hat to Briere for stepping ups and getting his guy. It surely looked like Trotz and at least one other club was in on Nesbitt.
As for the action on Canada Day for the Flyers, Dvorak is an expensive hole filler. He's certainly capable of being a 4th line center.
School is still out on the goalie situation. Ersson can play if the guys in front of him can, as seen in his recent international play. One has to face the fact that Tortorella misused/abused him during the last two seasons. It might be time for a different goalie coach?
Going forward, we don't know really what this club can do. Tortorella held back their talent in many ways. There is more offense here than what was shown. The defense is a question mark. They could be better or more of the same. Different schemes of play might help them.

[Austinfan]

Kings just gave Ceci 4x4.5M at 32.
Risto with 2x5 left at 31 will be a hot commodity at the TDL.

[phillychuck]

I’m fine with Dvorak as a sop to Tochet if the money doesn’t affect Shabanov. The goalie signing is one of the better options in a bad crop. But I would have liked to see them sink or swim with the younger guys they didn’t offer and some of the better “AAAA” guys...more fun to watch.

[zambonir]

Oh I agree Risto wound up building back up his value. But if they're in the mix for a playoff berth he ain't leaving this season either.

[zambonir]

Torts certainly had his bad spots but I don't think overplaying Ersson was one of them. He's not the guy who committed alleged sexual assault seven years ago, traded for Cal Peterson - a money move but he was supposed to have some use - paid Fedotov more money than Vladar just got or got handed a minor league goalie who didn't like the hotels in Allentown.

I think Torts got more out of this team than its talent, except on the PP. Tocc will have more talent and a better PP and that will allow all the haters to say Torts was bad.

[LegoDoom]

The New New Unending Flyers thread

I think that this would have been the ideal scenario with 20/20 vision, knowing how the board fell. However, the Flyers did not have the benefit of confirming Eklund would be available and that Pittsburgh would make their pick available when the flyers were picking sixth. Typically you have the framework of a deal in place contingent on the team you’re trading with not having a player they love fall to them. For instance, if McQueen was not taken by the ducks, I feel it’s a good bet that the Penguins would have drafted him. And maybe in that spot they don’t trade back because they like the other guy too.

That’s my long way of saying that I think the flyers should have drafted Martone at six because that was the best choice given the information they had at the time. At 12, given the information I have today, I believe they should have taken Eklund. And I believe that because I believe Eklund is the only person available with top line upside and they should have still been drafting best player available. If for some reason, they believed Nesbitt had 1C potential, then I’m OK with that pick. If they thought one of the defenders had one D potential then I would’ve been OK with that pick. If you have too many talented wings in your system, you either have great depth with your lines or better tradeable assets. If they need to flip someone in two years i believe Eklund will have a better return than Nesbitt.

That said, i think they recovered quite well on the second round and hopefully one or two of these guys out performs their forecast.

I guess my point was it doesn't have to be Eklund. It could have been Jackson Smith or another wing. Then there is the debate if Nesbitt was even the best C available. But taking Hagens first opens up more options. All that being said, I think Martone is the correct pick. I just don't like that it limits the other options at #12. Ok, Nesbitt was their guy... I guess that's fine and am open to other lines of thinking. It just doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

And I don't get the recent Couts talk. Couts shut down Malkin at 19 years old. That was his floor.

[Austinfan]

I'll repeat, BPA isn't the top scorer, but the most valuable player available.
Centers are the premium position, followed by RHD, LHD, RW and LW.
Scarcity matters, so do roles.
Centers got drafted 10-20 slots above projections, it's the hardest position to fill.

Scoring at lower levels is both a sign of talent and a by-product, b/c more physically mature and talented players get more PT and more offensive zone time. But that self-selection bias can inflate a prospect's value, especially among amateur rankings, when it's not put into context and checked against more detailed metrics.

The biggest problem, like baseball with HS and LA players, is projecting an 18 year old to 22.
With Martone and Hagens it was easier b/c late B-days meant they're almost 19 at the draft.
Jett was a late August B-day so only 2 months older than Hagens.
Also easier with foreign players in men's leagues like the SHL/KHL, Allsvenskan/MHL more like NCAA.

So like the baseball draft, I tend to dismiss most of the analysis.
In 3-4 years, we'll know if the Flyer FO were stupid or brilliant or lucky.

[Docs]

I'll repeat, BPA isn't the top scorer, but the most valuable player available.

We heard you the first time. That is not in question. What’s in question is if the flyers should have taken another available player given their belief that his upside is second line center, and possibly looking at the value of those two first round picks and seeing if they could have returned a better value in a trade outside the draft. If they were restricted to using those picks in the draft i don’t think the trade was bad. I do think they may have been able to move both picks for a young center with less risk and more upside. I think people would have lost their minds if both picks went to Minnesota for Rossi but Rossi is a probably a better prospect than Nesbitt depending on your value system.

[bigegypt0417]

I do think they may have been able to move both picks for a young center with less risk and more upside. I think people would have lost their minds if both picks went to Minnesota for Rossi but Rossi is a probably a better prospect than Nesbitt depending on your value system.

??I'm going to have to disagree here...Rossi and Nesbitt are completely different types of players and that can't really be debated. The Flyers took a guy with a high floor and a high ceiling. There is no way you get a young 2C with those two picks...like not even close.

You can question the Nesbitt pick but that reasoning isn't steeped in reality. You would have needed significantly more.

[Docs]

People were saying they wouldn’t want to give up one of the firsts for rossi so I’m confused, I’m saying a trade for a RFA that is better compensation than the restriction/salary. Comp was likely first and third for young centers assuming the team couldn’t match.

[bigegypt0417]

there are a bunch of people who looked at Rossi and decided he's too small, overrated and too expensive.

Rossi would get you at least a one but his price tag would probably lead to a smaller return since you'll need to pay him a boatload to keep him.

[zambonir]

I just figured the Rossi ship had sailed once they got Zegras, a deal in which they managed to preserve both firsts. And now the Wild are saying they will match any offer sheet. I think whatever happens with him we'll find it's a contract the Flyers couldn't do, even if they hadn't signed Dvorak.

[Docs]

I get that, but isn't that the goal? To lock in valuable young players? I used Rossi as an example because he was specifically discussed on this thread, but didn't intend to limit the conversation on just him. Zegras is a good example of young center further along in their development that wasn't worth 2 firsts. I get your point though, they get Zegras on a one year trial before they have to commit. Nesbitt like any other drafted player, might not reach his potential. I'm not going to die on this hill, I have previously said that I don't have a problem with what the Flyers did in the draft, I'm just wondering if there was more potential value for these picks and if there is a more 3D way to view the players and assets. I think the Flyers may have left some value on the table but they still had a solid draft weekend and i'm not upset with them.

Other examples of recent deals, RFA Defender K'Andre Miller was traded from New York to the Canes for Carolina's 2026 first and second (which are most likely bottom of the draft). Dobson was traded for 16 & 17. Are they first pair defenders? If so, there is value to trading late first for more established young players. I like that the Flyers like Nesbitt, I think its possible that they were too locked in though.

[LegoDoom]

I'll repeat, BPA isn't the top scorer, but the most valuable player available.
Centers are the premium position, followed by RHD, LHD, RW and LW.
Scarcity matters, so do roles.

This is valid for every sport. Literally everybody gets this, but there is a point where teams are drafting too much for position and passing on a lot of talent. Also, TK was a C when he was drafted. Not all of these positions will be accurate in a few years. I kind of doubt that Zegras will stick at C.

So like the baseball draft, I tend to dismiss most of the analysis.
In 3-4 years, we'll know if the Flyer FO were stupid or brilliant or lucky.

Cool. So there's no reason for debate.

[flyers19rw]

Two seasons ago the Ducks had Carlsso, Mactavish and Strome at center along with Zegras. Their PTB decided to move Zegras to wing. It was their decision to move him out of the place that he felt he was best playing. Now with the Flyers he’ll go back to center ice. His one weakness is FOs. After that there’s nothing that says that he doesn’t have the skills/ability to play there.

[Squire]

Shabanov signed with the Islanders

[Austinfan]

At least from what I've read, he's more comfortable at center. Varies from player to player.

I've felt that Couts would be better at LW, b/c as he ages and the league gets faster, his lack of speed is exposed.
At wing, he doesn't have to get all the way back to his own net and can be more aggressive on offense.

Cates was a top defensive center as a rookie, when he came back from injury he was a solid LW, last year when back at center with Brink and Foerster, played at a 2C rate. Still learning to integrate his defensive responsibilities with more aggression on offense, but he's a true center now.

Nesbitt went high b/c he was seen as a true center. Depends on the defensive scheme, but under Torts and probably Tochett, centers are like a 3rd D-man in a 3-2 zone, which is a tough role for an undersized center to fill.

That's probably why they had lukewarm interest in Rossi and had they signed Shabanov, probably would have moved him to LW. And that's the issue that Zegras has to address along with FOs, can he be adequate as a defensive center (no one is expecting a Selke candidate, just don't suck).

[zambonir]

Well that's annoying

[zambonir]

Also in this, Pelletier signs a three-year deal with Tampa, first season is still two-way, AAV is less than 850K.

Cal Petersen gets a one-way contract with Minnesota for $775, I assume that equates to "he can still clear waivers."

And Frost resigned for two years, $4.375 AAV with Calgary

Russian winger Maxim Shabanov snubs the Flyers for the Islanders

[Austinfan]

Put Shabanov in pespective, while people got all excited about him, compare him to another Russian forward:
Shabanov
20: MHL/VHL
21: VHL/KHLH 11g 1-1 2
22: KHL 67g 18-13 31
23: KHL 64g 25-25 50, PO 14g 3-8 11
Grebenkin
19: KHL 52g 9-17 26
20: KHL 67g 19-22 41, PO 23g 3-3 6
21: AHL 50g 12-16 28. PO 7g 1-3 4

Grebenkin is 6'2 209, agile, good shot and passer.
If 5'8 Shabanov can't stay at center, not sure he could beat out Grebenkin, Bump or Barkey.

Frost is getting almost as much as Dvorak, but for 2 years, and Farabee has 3x5 left on his deal.
Neither did much to get excited about after they were traded.

Pelletier was an odd decision, he showed enough that I'd have given him a 2 year deal just for depth.
Given they only have 10 NHL caliber forwards under contract, and Foerster may miss some time, Briere must either have an ace up his sleeve or is really high on the forward prospects, both Jett and Martone and the LHV forwards.