Minor League Games - Thursday, August 17, 2017

California_Dreamin 2017-08-18 00:33:25 UTC #26

From Reading to Williamsport and all leagues in between, the offensive onslaught continues...6 weeks and counting now.

teabag259 2017-08-18 01:28:59 UTC #27

Was Spencer Howard the one tabbed as the best RHP in the draft?

California_Dreamin 2017-08-18 02:33:14 UTC #28

Teabag...yes he was. Williamsport with a very nice and improbable rally, getting home runs from Matron and Gurrola in a 5 run 9th to pull out a 9-8 win.
On the opposite end of the spectrum was Clearwater, which blew a 9th inning lead and lost in 10 innings, 6-4.

Lakewood and Reading were both shutout.

Squire 2017-08-18 02:41:24 UTC #29

Can we please just shut Mickey Moniak down for the year? He has completely checked out. 4 for his last 40, 2BB, 10k

phillychuck 2017-08-18 03:04:26 UTC #30

This has really got to make you worry about the Phils' ability to evaluate players. The guy has a 6-something ERA in a league (NYPL) where he's playing against weaker college players and HS kids who couldn't make the jump to A-ball. He should be unhittable. Either he's hurt, or we need to fire a boatload of scouts.

How could you possibly draft this guy and say with a straight face you thought he was the best RH pitcher coming out of college unless you are a complete incompetent at evaluating talent. He's getting lit up in short season A-ball for heaven's sake. I'm sure we could name 30 drafted RHPs who are throwing better than him right now.

And what's really worrisome is the stupid "smartest guy in the room" crud the Phils pull--they go way off the board, and expect us to trust their skill above everyone else who is evaluating players, and it turns out again and again all the other guys were right. Use the BBA or BP published lists and save some money on scouts. Sheesh.

zambonir 2017-08-18 03:07:09 UTC #31

I always do an NCAA bracket where it's always the higher seed, just to see how it does in the pool, do BBA or BP do that for their rankings a few years later? I know "if you redrafted based on what you know today" articles are common.

allentown 2017-08-18 12:06:02 UTC #32

Not even their own analytical skill or original evaluation. There was a list of top guys ranked by KATOH that I saw after someone referenced it on the draft day post. We took several early reaches who ranked very highly on the KATOH list.

fish 2017-08-18 12:34:58 UTC #33

Patience is one thing, but if they are of the mindset you have to wait 5 years to evaluate the draft results of the guy hired to do the job we're in for a lonnnnng rebuild.

3 years of high draft picks and Kingery is the only sure-thing I see.

bigegypt0417 2017-08-18 13:08:22 UTC #34

Yay!

The sky is falling!

bigegypt0417 2017-08-18 13:10:27 UTC #35

It doesn't matter where you are and what your circumstance...you have to wait several years to judge a draft. Why does where you are in a rebuild matter?

I mean it's up to you if you want to be logical in looking at it but do you really believe you can judge a draft a year after?

As for Kingery...at this time last year there was a debate if Valentin or Kingery were the future of this team.

That's why drafts take some time to sort out...unless you believe the outcome is already decided.

kmc1019 2017-08-18 13:54:46 UTC #36

The 2016 draft will always be of special scrutiny for the Phillies on account of having the #1 overall pick. At the moment Nick Senzel, Forrest Whitley and Bo Bichette look like the class of the draft - with the latter 2 being HS picks, so can't really claim a reason why Moniak should not be performing like them. Hopefully things will look better for Moniak and Stobbe (2018 is a complete loss for Gowdy) because right now the 2016 draft looks about as horrible now as it did strong at this point last year.

bigegypt0417 2017-08-18 14:07:26 UTC #37

I dont know...jojo romero and kyle young would probably disagree with you.

Darick Hall
Will hibbs

allentown 2017-08-18 14:13:35 UTC #38

Valentin was more peripheral to that discussion, it was -- and really still is judging from recent back-and-forths, whether Hernandez or Kingery was the future, although we certainly saw Valentin as a close 3rd.

bigegypt0417 2017-08-18 14:19:29 UTC #39

My point was more around how the opinions on draft picks can change from year to year.

Although at this time last year, there were board members comparing valentin and kingery and who was the better prospect.

allentown 2017-08-18 14:20:24 UTC #40

This is something I've noticed from past drafts. In the late stages of the draft, those picks which are low bonus and low attention by the scouting director and GM -- the scouts make their pitches and the top guys haven't seen enough of the guys to do much beyond trust their scouts -- we find gems. In the past we found Howard and Altherr. Where we've done far less well is with the guys who get 90% of the bonus money and have the GM, scouting director, national cross-checkers, special advisors to the GM and president crawling all over the decision. It's the guys our higher ups fall totally madly in love with, who don't stack up in the end. I've been arguing for years that our area scouts are doing a better job identifying talent than our higher ups are doing ranking talent. The higher ups loved Hewitt and LGJ. They were seen as special talents. This is in stark contrast to the pre-Wolever days when the core of the golden era teams were signed. Then we identified great guys with our primo picks. We chose Utley and Hamels and Rollins, when other teams passed repeatedly on them.

I think it definitely is too early to make a decision about our top 3 picks from 2016. I think we should pretty much know about Moniak and Stobbe by May of 2019, but it will take a couple years beyond that to know what we have in Gowdy.

allentown 2017-08-18 14:21:14 UTC #41

I know. I was one of them.

bigegypt0417 2017-08-18 14:24:09 UTC #42

And it was a valid debate at the time. It also points to why drafts take a while to work themselves out.

andyb 2017-08-18 14:48:58 UTC #43

It was definitely a valid debate at the time. I took it as an example where scouting reports and tools were just as important as stats at various levels relative to age. Valentin as the kid of a major leaguer had some advantages that allowed him to move fairly quickly through the early minors. Kingery also moved relatively quickly for a college player. A HS draftee does have an age advantage potentially at each level but that is mitigated somewhat when the HS pick is very polished (like the kid of a major leaguer). They move through the lower minors more quickly because they already know lots of what is taught there.

Now Kingery's power is a bit of a surprise (though he seems to be settling down and looking more like a 12-15 HR guy). He always had scouts touting his athleticism, defense, and general hitting ability. He moved quickly and had relatively short 1-2 month adjustments at the beginning of most levels. All those things contributed to the view that he was better than Valentin even though Valentin had an edge in age/level raw stats.

schooldoc 2017-08-18 17:41:40 UTC #44

Moniak almost has to be playing through some kind of injury in order to be this bad. I just have this feeling we will hear about it after the minor league season ends, with his continuing to play justified by the reasoning that the Phillies wanted him to experience a full minor league season and that learning to play through nagging injuries is all part of the process. Short-sighted and silly? Yes. Something the Phillies would do/say? I wouldn't put it past them.

fish 2017-08-18 17:44:43 UTC #45

If you are drafting late and forfeiting picks, yes, it will take longer to judge. But when you are drafting as early as the Phils have, you have access to the best players. The cream, more often than not, rises to the top quickly. Very good players usually show they can play from the get-go.

I'm not saying everyone picked in the last 3 years is a bust, but you can compare what other teams are doing and have done to realize this isn't going very well.